GP Bikes beta6b

[HornetMaX]

im thinking more about the applied pressure on the handlebars.. when the rider moves around the bike!

beta6 has introduced the steering torque in the plugin interface, so I'll be able to track this in the telemetry tool.
I'm not sure what this torque is however: Id' tend to think it's not the torque applied by the rider on the handlebars, but the torque applied by the environment (e.g. the tire-road interaction) on the steering head.

does klax get these shakes and wobbles with DST?

For him to ask, but the usage of manual rider may help him, on top of the fact he may not be pushing the bike as hard as you are (which mean less weave situations).
For the wobble in low speed corners, I'd tend to say he has the same problem.

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

beta6 has introduced the steering torque in the plugin interface, so I'll be able to track this in the telemetry tool.
I'm not sure what this torque is however: Id' tend to think it's not the torque applied by the rider on the handlebars, but the torque applied by the environment (e.g. the tire-road interaction) on the steering head.

that sounds like gold dust... maybe piboso could look at that too! thats if he see's all this as being a problem!? im not sure he does..

maybe you can find something in there?

anyway iv typed enough shite for one day.. off to bed.

[girlracerTracey]

The front Wheel on 990 are still very unstable and jumps in slow corners JUST LIKE IN BETA 5b.....losing the front at low speed corners like that is just NOT real !!....is there anyone that has the balls to say it that this is WRONG !! ....all i see is people say "WAAW great job on cameras"......"WAAW great job on rider model" ....lol......but what about the most important thing ..."THE PHYSICS".....if you ever had ride on sportbike just once in your life you will know that front wheel don't act like that in slow corners.....just take you bike NOW for a ride in 5 min and you will know what i mean

I don't have the "you know what's" but I can & I do agree with you. I have tested the 500 varese now on various different circuits and I concur that the same effect from beta 5b is still present in beta 6b.

I personally feel the front end (on the throttle) wobbles and front end instability in corners needs to be addressed & "neutralised".

As regards the weaves don't get me wrong I like the effect of the bike protesting & weaving a bit on the throttle but I think the effect is too pronounced. 

But I think the potential shown in beta 6b is huge. It's just that front end that concerns me a little at the moment..

grT 

[yoshimura]

Congratulations for the work on the chassis, very good feeling, but please, loss of front, without any reason, but if instabilitée of a position too rigid pilot on the right left movements fast, simple thought.

[Hawk]

Having now rode the bike(Varase 500) on more tracks and laps, here is an update to my previous tests on Beta 6b:

Wobbles: On flatter circuits the wobbles are quite realistic and manageable, but when riding on circuits with large differences in height and cambers the wobbles are a lot more exaggerated to the extent that I feel is far to much than reality. Maybe testing with different set-ups could possibly help? (More testing with set-ups needed for a final conclusion).

Front end stability: The front end is more stable than beta 5b, but is still far from reality and still needs work to sort this on-going problem out.

Rider: As I stated before, the rider animation while the bike is in a wheelie looks comical to say the least with its arms locked bolt straight. This is not a good thing to do in a wheelie.

Sand and Grass: The sand and grass changes are quite a good change in my opinion. They both have a greater effect on grip(lack of) once the bike has got back on track, and the bike now, instead of just falling over is bogged down and quite slow to get out of the sand(grass not so much), but both have a greater effect on initial tyre grip performance once back on track. Very good! 

Respawn: I've noticed that now when you fall off you can respawn almost straight away(even though other riders are close by), and have also noticed that it respawns you in the centre of the track which because there is now no waiting for other close riders to pass before the respawn(which can be a good thing at times), this can also often create a situation were the rider is respawned right into the path of a rider on track.
I personally feel the respawn point should have been offset so that the rider will always respawn off the side of the track surface so that other riders have a chance of avoiding a rider spawned to come back on track. So I see this as a great idea but badly implemented. 

Pit Boards: New pit boards.... Nicely designed.... Very nice aesthetic addition.

Suspension Springs: I've noticed that now the range of spring setting has been dramatically reduced on the 500cc Varase? Any particular reason for this?

Suspension Preload: The preload settings range has dramatically increased... Again I would like to know the reason for this and it's effects? I always thought the preload was for setting the ride height of the bike to avoid upsetting the suspension settings once the rider sat his weight onto the bike. Also helps prevent grounding of the bike around corners due to G-forces compressing suspension while cornering? This doesn't seem to have the required effect?(But more testing is required to be sure). 

Front end tracking while cornering : On the 500 bike(Varase) on default settings, the front end tracking while cornering produces a large amount of under-steer that can only be overcome to a small degree by reducing the swing arm setting and increasing the rake setting; is this a correct thing to do as far as the physics of set-up is concerned? Maybe Max can fill me in on this procedure and whether this seems to be the correct reaction from the bike? 

Overall conclusion so far: I think this is largely a big improvement from beta 5b, and something we can really work with, though certain things(like the rider respawn) could have been implemented better with some pre-thought and discussion with members of the forum to gain their experience on the subject before implementation.
The front end instability is far better than beta 5b, but is still very bad from what it should be(I'd say back to the kind of front end instability we saw in beta 4b).
But overall beta 6b is a big improvement, but like all beta projects, still needs a lot of tweaking to get the physics stable, which is after all what were all looking for.
Good job Piboso and thank you, but I just wish you'd have concentrated soley on the physics of the bikes(priority being front end stability) rather than adding the other nice additions.

In my analogy this is like a 3D model that's been fleshed out into shape but not had the fine detail applied to it to finish it off. But non the less a good step forward. 


Hawk.

[JamoZ]

The front Wheel on 990 are still very unstable and jumps in slow corners JUST LIKE IN BETA 5b.....losing the front at low speed corners like that is just NOT real !!....is there anyone that has the balls to say it that this is WRONG !! ....all i see is people say "WAAW great job on cameras"......"WAAW great job on rider model" ....lol......but what about the most important thing ..."THE PHYSICS".....if you ever had ride on sportbike just once in your life you will know that front wheel don't act like that in slow corners.....just take you bike NOW for a ride in 5 min and you will know what i mean

Completely agree. I thought all the focus was on the physics for this beta, so that the focus for the next could be the netcode. But after the first 10 minutes on beta 6 i realised that there is still something fundamentaly wrong. I felt that after beta 3 physics wise every release was one step forward, and 2 steps back.

Bike behaviour is getting more random with every release and is going the opposite direction of realistic. I think it`s great that there was put so much time into new rider animations, suit, helmet & pitboards etc. But that time could be better used for solving the problems that have been here for a very long time now.

I don`t want to sound arrogant, but i wonder what the average laptimes are of the people who post that this is a huge step forward, at slow speeds everything looks and feels allright, but when i pushed the bike to its limits the exact same problems showed just as worse as in Beta5, some behaviour of the front wheel was even more random and weird then before. The only thing that has really improved is the excessive wheelying.

[HornetMaX]

Respawn: I've noticed that now when you fall off you can respawn almost straight away(even though other riders are close by), and have also noticed that it respawns you in the centre of the track which because there is now no waiting for other close riders to pass before the respawn(which can be a good thing at times), this can also often create a situation were the rider is respawned right into the path of a rider on track.
I personally feel the respawn point should have been offset so that the rider will always respawn off the side of the track surface so that other riders have a chance of avoiding a rider spawned to come back on track. So I see this as a great idea but badly implemented. 

I'd say that what matters is if it's on the trajectory or not ... sometimes the center of the track is the "safest" spot to respawn on.
If riding on grass/sand is now easier, I'm even more in favor of respawning off the track, not on it.

MaX.

[Hawk]

Respawn: I've noticed that now when you fall off you can respawn almost straight away(even though other riders are close by), and have also noticed that it respawns you in the centre of the track which because there is now no waiting for other close riders to pass before the respawn(which can be a good thing at times), this can also often create a situation were the rider is respawned right into the path of a rider on track.
I personally feel the respawn point should have been offset so that the rider will always respawn off the side of the track surface so that other riders have a chance of avoiding a rider spawned to come back on track. So I see this as a great idea but badly implemented. 

I'd say that what matters is if it's on the trajectory or not ... sometimes the center of the track is the "safest" spot to respawn on.
If riding on grass/sand is now easier, I'm even more in favor of respawning off the track, not on it.

MaX.

Absolutely... Riding on the grass and sand is very much easier now(in that you don't automatically fall off, and now bogs your speed down and has a big initial tyre grip performance penalty when back on track), so respawning on the grass at the side of the track would be the better option. I know it's not always as simple as that because what about tracks that have a wall as the outside of the track? But maybe there needs to be further thought into managing respawned riders? Even the thought of respawning back in your pit garage if you now fall off, especially now that we don't automatically fall off with this new sand/grass effect on the bikes? Once the front end instability is sorted out I personally think the respawn back into the pits would be a good idea, but not quite yet. 

But at the moment the respawn is now so fast after a fall that you could just appear out of the blue directly in front of the rider behind. This happened to Klax when I respawned last night, he had no chance of avoiding me at all. Lol

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

But at the moment the respawn is now so fast after a fall that you could just appear out of the blue directly in front of the rider behind. This happened to Klax when I respawned last night, he had no chance of avoiding me at all. Lol

Didn't notice that in the (short, to be honest) online test I did yesterday. What do you mean with "respawn is now fast" ?
From what I've seen yesterday, if a rider was arriving at the spot where you should respawn, you still have to wait for him to be gone before you can respawn.

MaX.

[Alibaskins]

Same problem 2 times for me yesterday.

[HornetMaX]

OK, maybe it's worth to open a new topic with all the potential bug/unexpected behaviors of beta6b (except physics, I mean).

MaX.

[Yohji]

@piboso I have problem.
it's realtime changing Eg Mapping My mod have 5step Engine braking maps. When I change brakingmaps when I riding. Core crash....

please fix it...

[r1rossi]

I struggled alot in Beta5b with front end wobble,,

After about 2hrs last nighto f play, I am very happy with the way it is in beta6b,

Seems alot more stable and I adjusted the advanced settings and so far so good.

[doubledragoncc]

As a hater of gamepads, but being stuck without my own controller, l find this a huge improvement on 5b even without any setup at all. The front end still washes out when it should not and the tank slappers are too profound still but still a great improvement. GREAT work Piboso thank you.

DD

[EdouardB]

So far I've only played for about 30 mins on the 990 and the 500.

Things that I like very much:
- The improved graphic details,
- The rear end feel overall,
- The view, the dashboard, lots of refined details...
- How Piboso keeps us informed of the progress more than before
- The overall effort put into this.

Things that I like overall but could be improved:
- The new rider animations. But the rider really needs to take his upper body and his head down to the side. Only beginners have that type of body positioning at the racetrack.
- The fact that you don't automatically crash when you touch grass or gravels. However I feel like grass and especially gravels have less grip in real life. The reality stands between 5b and 6b for this.
- Also when you get back on the track I feel like the grip is too low, it's not that bad in real life (I've been in the grass many times )

Things that I dislike:
- How unpredictable the front end is. It sometimes grip, sometimes doesn't, it's very hard to understand, the grip is much better in real life and more importantly the loss of front end grip is much more progressive in real life (unless you are braking like a mad man).
- The front end wobbles are just exagerated and the biggest problem I have is that when I change the setup to improve that (the same kind of setup that actually works in real life) it doesn't really improve.
- Respawn in the middle of the track.

Things that I absolutely hate:
- Core.exe