Interesting discussion on "sliding the rear"

[nuovaic]

That's a good one.
So far, every front end loss I've analysed has been due to the track surface - irregularities, bumps, change in surface etc. Even tiny differences, the front doesn't seem to absorb any fluctuations and at the first wiff of air underneath the tyre, it tucks in.
Hard to save too.




http://www.youtube.com/v/emlFCFfknZE

[BOBR6 84]

Looks to me like the virtual rider is counter steering too agressively to try and save it.. Or too late..Both video's.

[HornetMaX]

Looks to me like the virtual rider is counter steering too agressively to try and save it.. Or too late..Both video's.

Counter-steering ? In both videos the Virtual Rider is steering towards the inside of the turn. Too aggressively, that I agree. Piboso's explanation seems to be: the bike is under-steering, so the VR steers more (to the inside, to the left in both videos) trying to go back on track. But if it's under-steeing it means the front is already sliding more that the rear, so steering more may just make things worse.

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

Yeah it looks like the VR is trying too hard to pick the bike up using CS..

The bike is leant to the left.. VR pushes the right handlebar away from him.. To try and pick the bike up!  He pushes too hard, so the wheel turns in and tucks..

[BOBR6 84]

Or maybe as he is pushing the bar to bring the bike up, theres a bump or sudden loss of grip.. So the bars turn as he applys pressure..

No way to control that. Its up to the VR right?

[HornetMaX]

So far, every front end loss I've analysed has been due to the track surface - irregularities, bumps, change in surface etc. Even tiny differences, the front doesn't seem to absorb any fluctuations and at the first wiff of air underneath the tyre, it tucks in.

That could be: as soon as the front lifts a bit from the track, the bike under-steers (goes wide), and the VR tries to save it. Tries too much actually, ending up in making things worse.

@Piboso: is KYaw (in steer section) the gain that controls that "under/over-steering thing" ? And what are KDamping0 and KDamping1 ?

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

Is it possible at all to adjust where the VR moves his weight or applies pressure?

Maybe some pressure or force on the outside footpeg could help? When exiting a corner sitting the bike up.

[Warlock]

The bike is leant to the left.. VR pushes the right handlebar away from him.. To try and pick the bike up!  He pushes too hard, so the wheel turns in and tucks..

Two options:
1- Looks like this. But its just the VR or the real rider with the controller trying to control the sliding ?  I mean, you release a bit the stick to pick up the bike a little, to keep the rear behind you.

2- As Nuovaic said , once the wheel lose contact with tarmac, you can only pray.

[BOBR6 84]

If I push the control stick left to turn left.. The virtual rider initially counter steers (bars to the right)... Right?

Is that the case for every situation?

Direct lean on/off or slider that we have now.. Must make a huge difference!

I have direct lean off 15%.

To control slides going into and out of corners, my thumb is very busy on the control stick.
Flicking left to right quickly and rolling it around etc..

I take it that with direct lean on or slider to the right you cannot do that?

[BOBR6 84]

Also if I flick the control stick right before I go left.. I get a counter steer effect!

That baffles me.. Shouldnt the VR be doing that?

[HornetMaX]

Two options:
1- Looks like this. But its just the VR or the real rider with the controller trying to control the sliding ?  I mean, you release a bit the stick to pick up the bike a little, to keep the rear behind you.

But that shouldn't be: you don't pick up the bike to counter the rear sliding out.

In the video I made, I'm positive I didn't change the lean input.

Sometimes you have this also on the brakes: you brake hard, rear slides out a littl, you do nothing (no extra lean, no extra brake, nothing) and for a while it goes OK, and all of a sudden the front turns indie and you're down.

2- As Nuovaic said , once the wheel lose contact with tarmac, you can only pray.

Yes, but that shouldn't happen, the VR shouldn't react like a mad man to these events (assuming it's the VR reacting that causes the troubles).

MaX.

[TFC]

In the video I made, I'm positive I didn't change the lean input.

The problem I have had here, is several instances of this happening, watching a replay back and thinking - it looks like I've just jammed the stick in the direction the VR has, so technically the video's are useless.

[BOBR6 84]

If the rear slides out the first reaction is to turn the bars or front wheel into the slide.. Usually means not doing much! As the front will carry on going forward anyway. So for a left turn backing it in.. Rear slides out, I counter steer, pressure on left hand bar. To get the right lean angle. Control the rear tyre with the clutch to gradually gain grip.

Control pad perspective I tend to turn the stick into the slide but doing that means the virtual rider will try to counter steer the opposite way.

[BOBR6 84]

Sliding out or around a turn I guess would be same principle but control the rear with the throttle.

I can back the bike in nice enough for real. I cannot slide around a turn though! Maybe a little bit on the exit but its NOT down to skill lol. More lucky not to highside.

[EdouardB]

Same for me BobR6, don't worry about it too much