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January 19, 2021, 06:55:02 PM

JJ2S X4 500 Motorcycle

Started by Furious, December 22, 2014, 08:34:09 PM

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HornetMaX

The simplicity of the Wankel is only on the surface. It seems it's pretty hard to make one that performs better than conventional engines. But I like it too, just because it's a funky engine. Not sure it's a better engine though. That may answer your question about the manufacturers.

The cc capacity is an usual issue when you compare two different engine architectures: would you compare a 1000cc 4 strokes with a 1000cc turbo 4 strokes and conclude that as they have the same cc they should be on par ? I guess not :)

MaX.

matty0l215

Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 06:14:27 PM

Haha! C'mon Matty.... You've surely got to appreciate the shear beauty and simplicity of this engine... C'MOOOONNNN!!! Hehe  ;D

Since they sorted out the piston seal wear problems I think it's now the most efficient and best design of engine there has ever been. Can't understand why other manufacturers have not developed their own versions now to be honest?

Hawk

I do love the simplicity of the 2 stoke, but only in small capacity (above 300cc im not really a fun) saying that I'm more a fan of 600 4 strokes than the 1000s...  8)

Apart from Mazda, is there anyone who still commercially makes a mass produced Wankel? Definitely aren't any bike based ones... :( Shame really, would be great to see them ride again.
Hitting the apex is just a figure of speech, Don't literally hit it...

Napalm Nick

Mawk Porn seems to have gone up a few levels. Now quite a classy topic with the Wankels involved. Matty has joined the Triage it seems.

PS: Welcome back Max I was scared we had lost you  ;)

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on August 24, 2015, 06:38:51 PM
The simplicity of the Wankel is only on the surface. It seems it's pretty hard to make one that performs better than conventional engines. But I like it too, just because it's a funky engine. Not sure it's a better engine though. That may answer your question about the manufacturers.

The cc capacity is an usual issue when you compare two different engine architectures: would you compare a 1000cc 4 strokes with a 1000cc turbo 4 strokes and conclude that as they have the same cc they should be on par ? I guess not :)

MaX.

Interesting question there Max.

I'd be tempted to say that they do have the same cylinder capacity but not the same capacity for the density of gas entering the cylinder.  So the resultant power output of the turbo engine would obviously be higher than the normally aspirated engine.

But are you suggesting that the Wankel engine is like a turbo and normally aspirated engine all in one? That would mean it's even more of a fantastic design!  ;D

I've tried to be technically minded with that one. How did I do?  ;D

Hawk.
PS: I'm sure you could have explained it better than I. Lol

matty0l215

Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:41:47 PM

But are you suggesting that the Wankel engine is like a turbo and normally aspirated engine all in one? That would mean it's even more of a fantastic design!  ;D


I think its more like comparing a turboed engine to a NA one of the same CC, it just doesn't work. :P

I like tubroed bikes even less than 2 strokes... (bloody 'busa's, really don't the point) but a turboed 2 stroke, now that would be interesting  ;D
Hitting the apex is just a figure of speech, Don't literally hit it...

Hawk

Quote from: matty0l215 on August 24, 2015, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 06:14:27 PM

Haha! C'mon Matty.... You've surely got to appreciate the shear beauty and simplicity of this engine... C'MOOOONNNN!!! Hehe  ;D

Since they sorted out the piston seal wear problems I think it's now the most efficient and best design of engine there has ever been. Can't understand why other manufacturers have not developed their own versions now to be honest?

Hawk

I do love the simplicity of the 2 stoke, but only in small capacity (above 300cc im not really a fun) saying that I'm more a fan of 600 4 strokes than the 1000s...  8)

Apart from Mazda, is there anyone who still commercially makes a mass produced Wankel? Definitely aren't any bike based ones... :( Shame really, would be great to see them ride again.

Didn't Norton release a special rotory engine TT race bike in 2013?

Hawk.

Hawk

Quote from: matty0l215 on August 24, 2015, 07:48:50 PM
Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:41:47 PM

But are you suggesting that the Wankel engine is like a turbo and normally aspirated engine all in one? That would mean it's even more of a fantastic design!  ;D


I think its more like comparing a turboed engine to a NA one of the same CC, it just doesn't work. :P

I like tubroed bikes even less than 2 strokes... (bloody 'busa's, really don't the point) but a turboed 2 stroke, now that would be interesting  ;D

Haha! I think you need to go and see SpecSavers Matty!  ;D

Hawk.
PS: I thought modern MotoGP engines were turbo-engine bikes?? Yeah... I'm sure they are.  ;)

matty0l215

Hitting the apex is just a figure of speech, Don't literally hit it...

Hawk

Quote from: matty0l215 on August 24, 2015, 08:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:59:34 PM
Haha! I think you need to go and see SpecSavers Matty!  ;D



Hahaha!!! You look SO much better now Matty! Nice one mate! Hehe. ;D ;D

Hawk.

BOBR6 84

Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:51:37 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on August 24, 2015, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 06:14:27 PM

Haha! C'mon Matty.... You've surely got to appreciate the shear beauty and simplicity of this engine... C'MOOOONNNN!!! Hehe  ;D

Since they sorted out the piston seal wear problems I think it's now the most efficient and best design of engine there has ever been. Can't understand why other manufacturers have not developed their own versions now to be honest?

Hawk

I do love the simplicity of the 2 stoke, but only in small capacity (above 300cc im not really a fun) saying that I'm more a fan of 600 4 strokes than the 1000s...  8)

Apart from Mazda, is there anyone who still commercially makes a mass produced Wankel? Definitely aren't any bike based ones... :( Shame really, would be great to see them ride again.

Didn't Norton release a special rotory engine TT race bike in 2013?

Hawk.

Probably completely wrong here (different bike/class?) but didnt it have an aprilia rsv4 engine? Sounds incredible whatever it was..

HornetMaX

Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 24, 2015, 07:23:41 PM
PS: Welcome back Max I was scared we had lost you  ;)
Nah, just an internet-less holiday (and a too short one).

Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:41:47 PM
I'd be tempted to say that they do have the same cylinder capacity but not the same capacity for the density of gas entering the cylinder.  So the resultant power output of the turbo engine would obviously be higher than the normally aspirated engine.
That's a good reasoning, but if you want to pursue it, then you should take into account how fast each engine architecture can rev, because that gives (trying to make it simple) "how much energy an engine can swallow" (and hopefully convert). So you'll end up with something I'm not sure you like: fuel restrictions (which are in place in both motogp and F1).


Quote from: Hawk UK on August 24, 2015, 07:41:47 PM
But are you suggesting that the Wankel engine is like a turbo and normally aspirated engine all in one? That would mean it's even more of a fantastic design!  ;D
No I was only suggesting that allowing different engine architectures in the same class (e.g. 2s and 4s, or 4s and wankel) is always tricky and everybody will be entitled to say something like "rules favor engine A over engine B".

MaX.

Napalm Nick

They do holidays to the moon already?  :o
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

matty0l215

August 25, 2015, 12:42:12 PM #72 Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 01:54:48 PM by matty0l215
Yup, the Norton currently at the TT and since 2013 is a modified RSV4 engine (i cant remeber the mods they did but they wernt anything special) but they have recently seccured funding for a 1000 v4 and a 650 v twin in house engines. ;D

Here is an artical about it
Hitting the apex is just a figure of speech, Don't literally hit it...

Napalm Nick

I used to LOVE watching those JPS Nortons and the blue flames they put out. And the sound was sooo awesome you could hear them approaching like a jet fighter.  Fun times and yes, much controversy over the engine cc, strangely got a lot louder as they started to get near the front.
I seem to remember Scott Smart riding them cant remember the other geezers name just now.

Awesome - and I nearly bought an RX7 at the time but the day of the test drive two wheels had mysterious punctures but it was close!
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

HornetMaX

Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 25, 2015, 10:27:07 AM
They do holidays to the moon already?  :o
Closer than that, just intentionally avoided to buy the wifi option :)

MaX.