Crash Damage Anyone?

[Hawk]

Hi guys.

I know in the past there has been forum debates about when a rider crashes in a race, that the riders race in question should then end(much as it does for the most part in real life). This would basically stop riders from riding 110% for most of the time knowing that if they fell off they would still be able to carry on with the race with not problems. A lot of guys at the time didn't like the idea.

Well, I have been thinking(Hmm.. Hard work this thinking. Lol)..... Anyway, I thought that instead of race over straight away after crashing, that having some margin of crash damage that would effect the performance of the bike would be a compromise for those who were against the idea of "Fall off, then race over"? Maybe suspension damage, or the bike just not going as fast as it should would be pretty good? Then if you fall again maybe the damage would be too great to continue?
At least then I think you would have riders riding well within themselves(95-100%) for the most part(as in real life) and maybe only go above that 100% mark when absolutely required. Whereas now I think we have a lot of riders who are riding over the limits a lot of the time knowing that if they fall they can just reset and get back into the race straight away.

I'm not saying this should be implemented straight away, but considered for a future implementation as an option in the settings menu.

Would be good to have your own opinions on this subject.

Hawk

PS: This would also make it so that the most consistent riders win races and championships and not just the fastest, which again is what happens in real life.

[nuovaic]

I've always been for a crash limit of some kind, I mean, it's a sim after all. You can't crash indefinitely  in real life.
Yes, I see no problem if it's an option in the future release,
BUT
I don't think the sim is at a point yet where anything like this could be confidently implemented. Maybe it never will be. Hasn't Piboso indicated that the physics are pretty much done? But we definitely got to wait for the final version before thinking about implementing it. To me, right now, there is just not enough feel yet to know how close to the limit you are in real time. It would just be frustrating and no fun. Often for me, it's a question of learning the limit by 'pushing till you crash' then back off a little at the same point next lap. I think we could all tootle around at a safe 85% but where's the fun in that? Actually I crash more going slower than fast!

Having said that, I would be interested if we got together now and tried it out. One crash and your out, a short race on an easy track and see what happens. See if it's possible to hold back at an easy pace when your nemesis has just passed you at what seems like 99%!

[Klax75]

I've posted a couple times about a idea I had to have a "bike limit" similar to the tire limit we can set. With the bike limit I picture if you fall off the bike that counts as a loss. A server or host option can set how many lost bikes you can have before your DNF. I think this would help in parts were people know they can just reset so they don't care about crashing. But if it would count against how many times you can reset.

It's not a damage model but it would effect more safe riding.

My original post, the region for servers Piboso already put in since I posted this.
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=965.0

[JJS209]

i think that is a good idea of you hawk.
this "damage" would have saved me a lot of my nerves

[doubledragoncc]

I have just one thing to say. Bring it bro. It SHOULD be in the sim, after all it happens in real life, this is a SIM not a game. Most of the Nay Sayers are always going on about how this and that should be as it is in real life, but when it comes to crashing they dont want it realistic!!!! WTF If you dump your ass on the tarmac your bike will take damage and so will you. It may be hard to implement correctly, but it would make it so that as Hawk said, people wont ride balls out not worrying because they can crash and carry on. Think how much better people wold ride if they had to watch the damage and injury factor. If you dont like the idea you dont belong to riding a bike. SIM means SIM 100% not just as much as YOU want.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD

[tseklias]

I have just one thing to say. Bring it bro. It SHOULD be in the sim, after all it happens in real life, this is a SIM not a game. Most of the Nay Sayers are always going on about how this and that should be as it is in real life, but when it comes to crashing they dont want it realistic!!!! WTF If you dump your ass on the tarmac your bike will take damage and so will you. It may be hard to implement correctly, but it would make it so that as Hawk said, people wont ride balls out not worrying because they can crash and carry on. Think how much better people wold ride if they had to watch the damage and injury factor. If you dont like the idea you dont belong to riding a bike. SIM means SIM 100% not just as much as YOU want.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD

I agree... partly. On the other hand we must agree that piboso has done great work with all their simulators so far and asking of such think considering the amount of work it will need is someway difficult dont you think? If for example we speak about car simulators we havent seen one complete package(and think also that twice many companies have created car simulators). I guess you speak about the real visual damage we see only in BeamNG today not the ones we see in rFactor cause otherwise its not 'real' sim as you call it.

I also wanted to remind people here the type of crash we used to have in Superbike2001(or 2000 cant remember clearly). When the rider fell off the moto as soon as he stopped sliding around the track he run back to the moto to continue the race. Imo that would have been a great point to start plus much easier to accomplish.

and for the ones with weak memory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEnT0sw0P6Y (watch after 1:00 minute ull see the riders run back to their motos)

[doubledragoncc]

Yeah it is hard for Piboso to do. I think he would have to rewrite a lot to implement it. I was just saying it would be good IF a some point he could.

Love the video tseklias. I still like some of the older games for the fun factor. I would love GPB bike physics in GTA 5 for PC!!!
I am going to make a special controller just for GTA and the bikes just for fun. 3D printing should handle it lol.

I think if there was damage in GPB it would make riders learn to ride "cleaner" and maybe make it more of a challenge.

DD

[Hawk]

I've always been for a crash limit of some kind, I mean, it's a sim after all. You can't crash indefinitely  in real life.
Yes, I see no problem if it's an option in the future release,
BUT
I don't think the sim is at a point yet where anything like this could be confidently implemented. Maybe it never will be. Hasn't Piboso indicated that the physics are pretty much done? But we definitely got to wait for the final version before thinking about implementing it. To me, right now, there is just not enough feel yet to know how close to the limit you are in real time. It would just be frustrating and no fun. Often for me, it's a question of learning the limit by 'pushing till you crash' then back off a little at the same point next lap. I think we could all tootle around at a safe 85% but where's the fun in that? Actually I crash more going slower than fast!

Having said that, I would be interested if we got together now and tried it out. One crash and your out, a short race on an easy track and see what happens. See if it's possible to hold back at an easy pace when your nemesis has just passed you at what seems like 99%!

Hi Nuovaic.

Lol! I like your style! Hehe.

I absolutely agree with you. It would be an interesting test race indeed.  I hope someone can organise it. I'm sure PeterV would jump at the chance of a test like this.... How's about it Peter?
I hope Peter see's this... If not I'll give him a PM and see if he's got time right now to do this for us, but I know he's busy with other things right now so fingers crossed. 

Hawk

[Hawk]

I've posted a couple times about a idea I had to have a "bike limit" similar to the tire limit we can set. With the bike limit I picture if you fall off the bike that counts as a loss. A server or host option can set how many lost bikes you can have before your DNF. I think this would help in parts were people know they can just reset so they don't care about crashing. But if it would count against how many times you can reset.

It's not a damage model but it would effect more safe riding.

My original post, the region for servers Piboso already put in since I posted this.
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=965.0

Well yes. This would be another way of doing this. Good idea mate. 

Hawk.

[Hawk]

I have just one thing to say. Bring it bro. It SHOULD be in the sim, after all it happens in real life, this is a SIM not a game. Most of the Nay Sayers are always going on about how this and that should be as it is in real life, but when it comes to crashing they dont want it realistic!!!! WTF If you dump your ass on the tarmac your bike will take damage and so will you. It may be hard to implement correctly, but it would make it so that as Hawk said, people wont ride balls out not worrying because they can crash and carry on. Think how much better people wold ride if they had to watch the damage and injury factor. If you dont like the idea you dont belong to riding a bike. SIM means SIM 100% not just as much as YOU want.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD

Absolutely! This is the main reason behind either damaged bikes or one or two falls and your out, to try and get more sensible and realistic riding practices during races.

Thanks DD.

Hawk.

[JJS209]

a "quick" solution could the limited resetbikes be, imo.

e.g.:
race starts and you have 3 bikes in all.
one you sit on and starting with and two "fail/fall" bikes which means simply that the amout of reset will be then 2.

[Hawk]

I have just one thing to say. Bring it bro. It SHOULD be in the sim, after all it happens in real life, this is a SIM not a game. Most of the Nay Sayers are always going on about how this and that should be as it is in real life, but when it comes to crashing they dont want it realistic!!!! WTF If you dump your ass on the tarmac your bike will take damage and so will you. It may be hard to implement correctly, but it would make it so that as Hawk said, people wont ride balls out not worrying because they can crash and carry on. Think how much better people wold ride if they had to watch the damage and injury factor. If you dont like the idea you dont belong to riding a bike. SIM means SIM 100% not just as much as YOU want.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD

I agree... partly. On the other hand we must agree that piboso has done great work with all their simulators so far and asking of such think considering the amount of work it will need is someway difficult dont you think? If for example we speak about car simulators we havent seen one complete package(and think also that twice many companies have created car simulators). I guess you speak about the real visual damage we see only in BeamNG today not the ones we see in rFactor cause otherwise its not 'real' sim as you call it.

I also wanted to remind people here the type of crash we used to have in Superbike2001(or 2000 cant remember clearly). When the rider fell off the moto as soon as he stopped sliding around the track he run back to the moto to continue the race. Imo that would have been a great point to start plus much easier to accomplish.

and for the ones with weak memory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEnT0sw0P6Y (watch after 1:00 minute ull see the riders run back to their motos)

I'm sure Piboso would want to end up with the best possible job in the end for GPB(more sales, right?  ), and it's not as though we are demanding this being implemented in the next beta release, it is just a suggestion that Piboso can either take on board and implement whenever he can or choose not to do so. 

The video is BRILLIANT!! 
I hope also that Piboso could eventually implement RAG-DOLL rider physics whenever we crash, after all this would also make GPB a more realistic simulator, right?

Thanks tseklias.

Hawk.

[Hawk]

a "quick" solution could the limited resetbikes be, imo.

e.g.:
race starts and you have 3 bikes in all.
one you sit on and starting with and two "fail/fall" bikes which means simply that the amout of reset will be then 2.

I believe this is what Klax has said above. It's a good idea though. 

Thanks JJ

Hawk.

PS: Great minds think alike, eh. 

[BOBR6 84]

British superbikes.. If the bike hits the deck.. Race over!
Even if its a 2mph crash! Pretty harsh but its better than a red flag due to dumped oil on the track..

Maybe a bit too harsh for gpbikes but it could be an option to turn on/off?

I didnt even know until my first race with peterV and warlock etc that we can blow up the engine!
I crashed a few times in the begining.. Pushed hard to try and catch up, crashed again! Then my bike was dead!

So there is damage already.. More from abusing the engine though..
Would be cool if the bike could be completely mangled after a big crash lol. Then you would know for sure its game over lol.

[HornetMaX]

Whatever, if it's an option. But I think there are tons of more important things to work on before that specific one.

Any by the way, what's next ? You fall once and then you can't play GPB for 1 month because you have one (virtual) broken leg ?

MaX.