Stronger rear brake

[davidboda46]

I think the rear brake should be stronger. It is impossible to lock up the rear wheel (going in a straight line), even when you slam on the rear brakes. A little more finessed feeling would be more accurate I think. Do you guys agree?

Cheers.

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46 

[doubledragoncc]

Gotta say YES to that, The rear brake has never been real!! its like a moped brake on a race bike............really!!!!!!
PLEASE fix this

DD

[WALKEN]

This has always been an ongoing debate over the years among many bike games on many forums..

My personal feeling regardless if it is technically right or wrong, my style has been altered from locking and dragging my rear tire to the apex and spinning out to pulsing under heavy braking to fine feathering..

Maybe its because with the old 500cc 2 strokes you could man handle them hence dragging a locked rear end into the apex. Of course this has faults as flat spots will happen. Think about motorcross and how they drag their rear tire locked up and then spinning it up on exit. Much harder on tar obviously but GP riders don't ride on dirt tracks on the off season for no reason.



Just ask that guy.

[doubledragoncc]

I have always used more rear brake than most seem to advise, but I personally feel more in control with a good rear brake. It is also somewhat wrong that because the majority SAY we should use more front brake we are not given the option to ride as we would in real life, this therefore makes for an unrealistic simulation of the braking of bikes.

DD

[Klax75]

Out of my riding I may use the rear brake 1% of the time, I use the front brake exclusively.

[WALKEN]

Could it simply be a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke and how they differ?

When you jump with a 4 stroke you need to have momentum all the way through to the lip of the jump where as with a 2 stroke you can simply roll up to the jump an snap the throttle, launching you forward.  With a different type of power delivery braking also differs.

I know that the 4 stroke riders on past arcade racers such as MotoGP2 that never played GP1 (all 2 strokes)  couldn't understand how to keep momentum with the NSR500...  They where using to much front brake is why, killing momentum. 

Also engine braking on a 4 stroke is huge compared to 2 stroke where when you pull in the clutch you can free wheel with no resistance. Even with the clutch out there is way less resistance.

I remember in Southwick Mass when the motocross racers were transitioning from 2 strokes to 4 strokes and the field was scattered with 250cc 2 strokes and 450 4 strokes. The 250's were killing them in the first couple years until they started to understand how to use the 4's roll on power, then it all started to even out.  Not to mention the balls it would take to do some of the things you try in GPBikes in real life. 

Even Rossi admits to having to adapt.     

[BOBR6 84]

Touching rear brake at any descent speed does nothing... I never use it, in gpbikes though im always tapping the rear brake here and there to help me get in and around corners.. Unrealistic!! Some riders use rear brake alot as we know but the way I use it in gpbikes is unrealistic..

Its on the X button so I tap tap tap.. If I hold it in the rear washes out!

No idea what the rear brake feels like with modulation in gpbikes..

[matty0l215]

I use the rear break only mid corner to knock off speed, but 98% of the time i only use front break

the rear break currently is fine for me 

[doubledragoncc]

Its not about all of you who dont use the rear brake. Why should only your wants be made available, it selfish to us who use it in real life. Its about the rear brake not working as it should not about if you use it or not!!!

I dont care about your opinion on using the rear brake, I care about the function being fixxed.

Sorry but just because YOU dont use a rear brake dose not mean its wrong to!!!

DD

[HornetMaX]

Touching rear brake at any descent speed does nothing...

Right.

It's a common misconception that when riding on straight, if you jam the rear brake hard the rear wheel will instantly lock: that won't happen.

Reasons: if the rear is loaded, there're tons of grip the tire can stand and to lock the rear you have to fight against the wheel (rotational) inertia: if the wheel is turning reasonably fast, that takes time.

The cases where you do lock the rear are essentially limited to very low speed or when the rear is unloaded (e.g. if you're breaking hard with the front too).

MaX.

[davidboda46]

It's true that how much you use the rear brake is an individual thing. Marquez uses a lot as does Hayden, Pedrosa uses much less. The thing is that the rear brake has a lot of different uses. It can help stabilize the bike under braking, it can be used to back the bike into a corner, it can be used to control wheelies and it can be used to tighten the corner trajectory. None of these techniques require you to lock the rear, quite the opposite. But that does not mean you should be able to. And going in a straight line, braking with both front and rear, it should be possible to lock up the rear brake, as it is in real life.

Actually, the front brake also feels under powered to me. I remember when Sete Gibernau got caught up in Capirossi at the Catalunya race in 2006. His front brake lever was pushed in all the way and the bike (and him) went into a forward somersault (it was a horrible crash btw and you can see it here= http://youtu.be/AOwNOT-BlG8). That is the reason why front brake guards were made mandatory in MotoGP. The only time you can replicate this in GP-bikes is if you are on a piece of track that's going downhill. At least that's my experience. I'm not saying you can't brake a 100 procent without flying, but you can't go from 0-100 in a flash because the suspension can't soak up the violent forward movement and the amount of force going towards the front of the bike. Right now in GP-bikes it feels like the front brake is somewhere around 1-80% instead of 1-100% and the rear brake is around 1-50% (talking about 1000 cc bikes with the largest brake disks on).

You are of course free to disagree, but the discussion should not be about whether or not you use the rear brake, it should be about the amount of braking force at full application.

PS: I am using my homemade rig, meaning that I use an analogue system (G27 pedal for rear brake, and pots on front brake). It is a different issue if your using a gamepad button for the brake.

Cheers.

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46         

[doubledragoncc]

Thanks David, well put. I use only analog inputs for all motion control and its the ONLY way. A digital signal is on or off with no inbetween and as such frickin dangerous lol, thank god they dont work like that in real life.............oh shit!!!

DD

[WALKEN]

I trust real world physics. I would imagine Piboso is using data for a correct simulation of correct physics?

Personally coming from a place where a game pad is the control source realism isn't exactly realistic.  I'm pretty certain in real like you can endo a street bike hence you should be able to lock the rear brake as well.  I would also think its rather obvious why a bike washes out under to much front braking? 

Was locking the rear brake on a nsr500 and dragging the rear into the apex from 20 yards away fun? Yes!

Do I trust Piboso and his data on realistic physics? I guess I have to seeing as I am not an engineer

Another thought is, maybe the feeling isn't there to convey the response of what is really happening?   

[h106frp]

Hmm....
2 of these

against 1 of these

[doubledragoncc]

H its not about ONLY using a rear brake for stopping. Its about using it for control. I bet most who put rear braking down have never really used it and dont even know how to properly in different situations!!!

DD