Daytona 200 Circuit....

[EdouardB]

Hey guys,

I confirm that for sure the 500s did not have any rev limiter at least until 1989 but probably until the end (2002).

Even on the 1992 TZ250 I ride there is absolutely no rev limiter and it's the same thing for the TZ350 and the TZ750.

Also I know for a fact that even in the last years of the TZ250 (2006ish?) they still had no rev limiter, mainly because there is no need for it at all (and probably because a cut in ignition really messes up your fuel/air mixture and those bikes are really sensitive to that). I don't see why it should be any different on the last 500s.

What happens when you over rev? Well you usually break something, but the way those 2 strokes are, the power really drops after a certain RPM past the peak power so you change gears anyway.

Therefore, it's crucial to have the right gearing on a racing 2 stroke so that you don't over rev at the end of the straight.

(Also on daytona all the TZ750 would use special carburetors for the events that included a powerjet, which the standard bike didn't have, to prevent any seizing).

[HornetMaX]

Thanks for the info EdouardB and Alby ! I wasn't aware but effectively it makes sense given how quickly the power curve drops.

Therefore, it's crucial to have the right gearing on a racing 2 stroke so that you don't over rev at the end of the straight.

That's the easy part. I suspect that without a limiter most people will over-rev even more (and break the engine, even more) because of the revs going up when leaning. But as you explained once, this is just normal, one has to shift up a gear to take it into account.

Has anybody tried to remove the limiter on the varese ? Maybe it just works. Or one could put it above the BreakingRPM of the bike, should be enough.

MaX.

[Hawk]

Thanks for the confirmation Alby and Edouard, and great historic and useful details there in your reply Edouard, thanks mate! 

Hawk.

[EdouardB]

Therefore, it's crucial to have the right gearing on a racing 2 stroke so that you don't over rev at the end of the straight.

That's the easy part. I suspect that without a limiter most people will over-rev even more (and break the engine, even more) because of the revs going up when leaning. But as you explained once, this is just normal, one has to shift up a gear to take it into account.

On the Daytona banking the bikes don't have much lean angle compared to the surface itself because the banking is actually super steep (I've seen the Montlhéry banking for example and it's much steeper than you'd imagine with pictures).

However the RPM did raise by a fair amount because the tyre compressed really hard with the G force! In fact with the old bikes the suspension would sometimes bottom out on the banking... I know a few riders who have raced daytona back in the 70s and 80s and they all have a vivid memory of how extreme it was - apparently it's something very special.

It's too bad the race has lost some of its prestige and aura.

[HornetMaX]

Therefore, it's crucial to have the right gearing on a racing 2 stroke so that you don't over rev at the end of the straight.

That's the easy part. I suspect that without a limiter most people will over-rev even more (and break the engine, even more) because of the revs going up when leaning. But as you explained once, this is just normal, one has to shift up a gear to take it into account.

On the Daytona banking the bikes don't have much lean angle compared to the surface itself because the banking is actually super steep (I've seen the Montlhéry banking for example and it's much steeper than you'd imagine with pictures).

Sure, but I think Hawk was advocating for the removal of the limiter from the two strokes everywhere, not only for the "endurance" versions.

MaX.

[EdouardB]

If you want more realism, it's a good idea, but it's very difficult to recreate exactly how the engine breaks when you over rev. Sometimes you can get away with a little over rev, sometimes you don't, it's a bit random

[Hawk]

Sure, but I think Hawk was advocating for the removal of the limiter from the two strokes everywhere, not only for the "endurance" versions.

You got it Max..... I know that the bikes in GPB have a max rev limit before engine breaks, and also seems to break at times through persistent over revving of the engine over a certain time?
I know the other day when I was testing a bike(not released yet), I was just accelerating out of "Copse" corner(Sliverstone) and looking back at it in the replay I'm sure the engine must have seized because the engine just stopped dead and the rear wheel locked up and came right round on me. "Of course I crashed". Hehe. 

But it does seem that you can alter the settings somewhere for engine damage which over time can lead to engine failure(seizure or whatever it is), as well as a max RPM limit which if you go over that limit the engine just breaks and stops suddenly.

I'll have to make more tests when I have time. This surely does add an extra equation to bikes that don't have RPM limiters.... Fascinating for that extra level of realism. 


Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

You got it Max..... I know that the bikes in GPB have a max rev limit before engine breaks, and also seems to break at times through persistent over revving of the engine over a certain time?
I know the other day when I was testing a bike(not released yet), I was just accelerating out of "Copse" corner(Sliverstone) and looking back at it in the replay I'm sure the engine must have seized because the engine just stopped dead and the rear wheel locked up and came right round on me. "Of course I crashed". Hehe. 

But it does seem that you can alter the settings somewhere for engine damage which over time can lead to engine failure(seizure or whatever it is), as well as a max RPM limit which if you go over that limit the engine just breaks and stops suddenly.

I only see these settings (in the bike's .cfg):

Code Select Expand

BreakingRPM = 18000
BrokenTorque = 1

NumLimiter = 1
Limiter0 = 16200

Not sure how the damage stuff works though: is it an instant break if you go past BreakingRPM or is there some counter that keeps track of how much time you've spent above BreakingRPM and breaks after a given amount ? No idea here. I'm not even sure about what the MaxRPM does.

Anyway I'm with you on this one: if there was no limiter on the 2-strokes, then we should have no limiter.

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

With the varese doesnt the engine carry on reving? Only the needle stops?
Been a while since I used the varese but I dont remember it bouncing on a limiter?

[Alone]

seems
like an instant broke to me, once you are on the brakingrpm number you
broke it. Without a limiter, is a must to care the throttle in a fall, a
funnything

[Hawk]

The revised and updated "Classic Daytona 200 Circuit" should be ready for release later today guys.... I'll keep you informed if any problems cause a delay. 

Hawk.

[tseklias]

The revised and updated "Classic Daytona 200 Circuit" should be ready for release later today guys.... I'll keep you informed if any problems cause a delay. 

Hawk.

[Docfumi]

That makes me happy  Thanks for all your effort Hawk.

[Hawk]

That makes me happy  Thanks for all your effort Hawk.

Thanks Doc and tseklias ... Appreciated guys! 

Hawk.

[Hawk]

"Classic Daytona 200 V0.8_NDS" is now released.....

Please read here for download link and details: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=45.60

Enjoy!

Hawk