brakes wrong simulation

[HornetMaX]

Yet i don't understand how gpb brakes function. I mean when i press my controller at 10% for example is it past the point where the pads touch the discs or is it the whole movement the brake lever is moving? If the first applies here(according to the feel it gives imo the first is atm in use) then adding a dead zone of 20-30% to your front brakes axis must come closer to reality.

If you set no deadzone on your brake input, the input will translate directly into a pressure on the pads. That's why not using a load cell feels for brakes "wrong": the position of your input device (joystick, joypad trigger  or even a g27 pedal) is translated into a pressure. With a load cell, a pressure is translated into a pressure: should give a better feeling, obviously.

Actually, there's an hardcoded deadzone anyway (in the bike.cfg, Brake section, Deadzone), not sure how to interpret it but it could be to simulate the first part of lever movement (not generating any pressure on the discs).

In reality modern motorcycles have numbers on the brake lever indicating the position theyll stand.

Yes, but these numbers have nothing to do with the "deadzone", they simply put the lever closer to the handlebar. They don't give you anything more: no faster brake reaction, no bigger braking force. It's just a comfort thing: if you have small hands you may want the lever to be closer to the handlebar.

Also Max please can you explain what have Yohji changed in terms of physics. I mean at start i changed these numbers to the maximum thinking that this will move the calipers more on the outter circle of the wheel so i can have a better breaking.

Things you can change in the garage:

• Front leverage: the smaller (yes, smaller) the leverage, the bigger the maximum braking force you have. You may lose some sensitivity of course.
• Rear master cylinder: the smaller (yes, smaller) the cylinder diameter, the bigger the maximum braking force you have. You may lose some sensitivity of course.

Things you can change in the bike.cfg (that would make a modded bike, careful):

• Rider max force: that's the max force the rider can apply to the lever (I think it's expressed in Kg, bit strange to me).
• Front leverage and rear master cylinder: you can change the values (multiple values are allowed)

It is curious that in the .cfg you can also define a front master cylinder and a rear leverage (even multiple ones), but these are not exposed in the garage.
The simultaneous usage of master cylinder and leverage may be a bit redundant (for our purposes at least), but both settings should probably be exposed in the garage I think.
At least at the front, it is definitely routine to play with the leverage and the master cylinder.

Yet all this testing has revealed another problem: Breaking on grass fields locks the wheels yet the motorcycle stand upright and going(with the front wheel locked constantly)-this problem has also been witnessed by Napalm's testing.

Yeah, that's a bit weird ... not sure what could explain it ... OK the surface is perfectly flat, and with the bike perfectly vertical and steering centred, it could slide keeping that stance, but still ... being able to move significantly the handlebars with a locked front wheel on grass without falling ... surely not something I would try

MaX.

[tseklias]

In reality modern motorcycles have numbers on the brake lever indicating the position theyll stand.

Yes, but these numbers have nothing to do with the "deadzone", they simply put the lever closer to the handlebar. They don't give you anything more: no faster brake reaction, no bigger braking force. It's just a comfort thing: if you have small hands you may want the lever to be closer to the handlebar.

Yes indeed that's the function in real life. Yet adding some deadzone to gpb isn't like playing with this setting of the brake lever? The only side effect you'll have is a more sensitive brake in gpb as you shorten the overall brake area of the axis. In reality you only add/remove deadzone by changing this number to the overall movement the brake lever can make, but that doesn't affect nothing else beyond that.

[HornetMaX]

Not really because in real life, no matter which setting you dial on the brake lever, you always have the same amount of "deadzone".


MaX.

[EdouardB]

At very high speed you brake as hard as possible  Initially!, You dont apply more brake as you get closer to the corner. The tyre loves hard braking. It Does not lock up..

(...)

I raced today  I was abusing the front brake right into the corner.. As long as you dont suddenly apply more brake, you can get away with braking with good lean angle too.. Bike tyres are amazing 

I completely agree with you Bob.

I use a Dunlop D211 tyres and even with a hard front the tyre will not lock up if the bike is upright no matter how hard you pull on the lever (once the so called "weight transfer" is over, which is usually super quick). The rear wheel lifts up way before any lockup happens.

The only exceptions nowadays with race tyres in my experience are:
- If the bike is leaned over a lot, then you can lock the front (and if you release it quick enough you can sometimes save it),
- On a straight line, if you grab the brakes with no progressivity at all in the first split second (like 0.1s), then you have no load on your front tyre and therefore no grip and you can actually lock it. But if you're even just a little bit progressive at the first touch of the brake then you can brake like a madman after that.

When I'm braking on a straight line on the track I don't worry at all about the front locking unless there's a big bump somewhere which would unload my suspension. I only worry about my rear wheel lifting - that's the limit. Bob you're most likely a better rider than me but I think you probably agree? By the way how did the race go? dry after all?

Overall I think a lot of people don't realize how much grip race tyres have nowadays. It's really crazy to be honest, especially how much you can trail brake now, I practiced trail braking at the track 2 weeks ago and it's really insane how much grip there is.

And in MotoGP even with a bit of lean angle they can lift the rear nowadays:

[HornetMaX]

I use a Dunlop D211 tyres and even with a hard front the tyre will not lock up if the bike is upright no matter how hard you pull on the lever (once the so called "weight transfer" is over, which is usually super quick). The rear wheel lifts up way before any lockup happens.

And not to be unfair to Dunlop D211, but MotoGP tyres are a couple of leagues above that

- On a straight line, if you grab the brakes with no progressivity at all in the first split second (like 0.1s), then you have no load on your front tyre and therefore no grip and you can actually lock it.

Or you can try this ... but I suggest you don't

https://www.youtube.com/v/quoYHbgF6KY

And in MotoGP even with a bit of lean angle they can lift the rear nowadays:

Front fork bottoming out, look at how squashed the front tyre is.

And that's Pedrosa, he has some sort of arthritis ...

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

@EdouardB

Yeah man thats tricky if you hit a bump on the brakes, once you know about it its ok but if It catches you by suprise its nasty lol.

The weather was amazing for the meeting! Couldnt beleive it lol. I did two pre-injection 600 races, 2nd and 2nd (beat by my housemate lol) and an open race which I won! Very happy, great weekend 

Iv used for a while pirelli supercorsa sp.. 180/55. They are great but basicly a road tyre.. Last round I use pirelli supercorsa sc0 and sc1 180/60 AMAZING!

[EdouardB]

Congratulations for the races!!!

Yeah the SP are really road tyres.

I use Dunlop D211, medium front, hard rear, they are very good as well, especially the rear. Very sensitive to tyre pressure, on the wrong pressure the rear just wears much faster.

I've also used Michelin Power One a while ago but haven't tried the power cup (and the power cup ultimate is coming out soon).

Have also ridden Bridgestone slicks on the TZ250 but honestly disliked them, the front tyre felt super stiff and many 250 racers confirmed that the front was too stiff for a 250.

What other tyres have you ridden? I'm interested in your feedback.

[BOBR6 84]

D211 and D212 great tyres! personally i think dunlop make the best tyres going now. not sure about dunlop slicks though?

il probably use the D212 next..
not sure if i can get too many of these SC's

i really like pirelli.. on the roadbikes too! always the diablo corsa 3 for the road even though they are old now..

yeah so iv used.. bridgestone battlax's.. dunlops D211, D212, other road versions good too! pirelli SC1, SC0, SP, Corsa 3, Metzeler not too keen for some reason although they basicly are pirelli lol.

couldnt tell you a great deal about slicks..

D212's and pirelli SC's its between them for me..

[EdouardB]

The only issue I have with the D212 is that they're significantly more expensive than the D211. I get the D211 for about 280€ a set. The D212 are closer to 400

About the slicks, right now the best seem to be the Dunlop KR which are on another level. At least that's what my national superbike friends tell me.

As for Metzeler, everyone says they're the same as Pirelli's (they are from the same factory) but a lot of people also say they wear differently so maybe they're not so much the same...

[BOBR6 84]

Agreed.. Cost of tyres is a big hit.. I use scrubbed tyres alot to be honest, mainly good enough for my needs. Always have a new set too just incase but I use up the srubbed tyres as much as I can to keep cost down.

Just depends how many heat cycles they have done.. If you keep them warm all day with the warmers they last quite well.. If u let tyres go hot and cold to many times it kills them.