We Need a Good Sound System for "Situational Awareness" in GPB.

[Hawk]

What we need for GPB, especially while riding in 1st person view, is a good sound system that would hugely improve the "Situational Awareness" for the rider.

By this I mean something like at least a stereo sound capability so that we can know were sound is coming from, ie: Front, rear, left, or right..... Also that the intensity of the sound is comparable to were the sound is coming from, be it ambient sound or even your own engine sounds. This would dramatically improve the situational awareness for the rider in GPB.

Stereo sound would allow for bikes that are coming up behind you but still far away to have sound from both speakers at a strength appropriate to the distance that bike is away from your bike. Also when a bike is close and for example coming up the right side of you into a corner(out-braking you for example) then the sound of that bike would get appropriately louder from your right-hand speaker, and vice versa if the bike came up on the left side of you. I just think this would make a huge difference in, as I've said, the situational awareness of were other bikes are around you in a limited visible environment as GPB is if your only using a monitor screen for the visuals. Even with occulus rift, having at least a stereo sound system would make a big improvement to situational awareness.

But I guess ideally we need 3D sound or surround sound capabilities, ideally that is. But stereo sound would  be a great starting point. 

Anyone else with any thoughts about improving situational awareness, especially for 1st person view setting?

Hawk.

[Napalm Nick]

+10

This would improve the game in a race a huge amount.  I really worry that the playability of the game is second rate to the precision of the physics design sometimes. None of the 'critical path' playability fixes seem to get acknowledged or addressed. I am hoping to be proven wrong of course.

Good sensible suggestion Hawk. It would be a significant and essential  improvement to the whole package if implemented.

[matty0l215]

Although very limited at the moment, after a few races in first person you get used to the sound differences. There  are subtle differences but they are there and can be herd.

And good set of headphpnes helps for sure

Then again i havent raced 3rd person for the last 2 betas

[BOBR6 84]

Yeah headphones... Cant play without them. Riding onboard you get the wind noise which is great but bloody deafening lol. Also I can hear if a rider is behind or to the left/right.. On the grid though I have to turn volume down.. Some of the bikes sound disgraceful lol and a full grid of bikes its difficult to pick out my engine noise.. Its just one big horrible noise hahaha

[Hawk]

Although very limited at the moment, after a few races in first person you get used to the sound differences. There  are subtle differences but they are there and can be herd.

And good set of headphpnes helps for sure

Then again i havent raced 3rd person for the last 2 betas

As an analogy: "A blind person can learn to read and be aware of ones surroundings with a lot of practice and determination, but I'm sure they'd rather have their sight back." 

Personally I don't think we shouldn't be praising and basically saying a feature is adequate in GPB that is quite clearly not adequate for the job if we want GPB to be the best sim on the market.
If the sound system is not up to the task(which it clearly is not), then we should say so. Only then will Piboso see a need to change it.

@Bob: Unless there is something in the sound system that we are not aware of, the bike sounds are mono, so how can you hear the sounds definitely coming from left or right in your headphones? Your describing stereo sound and GPB hasn't got that capability as far as I know? But then again there are many things Piboso doesn't tell us that would be useful for us to know so that wouldn't come as any surprise. Lol 

Hawk.

[Kerazo]

gotta agree with bob, with a good headset i know exactly where the other rider is, on the other hand its impossible for me to race or battle properly just with speakers ( 1st person riding ) because you dont hear enough.

[matty0l215]

Although very limited at the moment, after a few races in first person you get used to the sound differences. There  are subtle differences but they are there and can be herd.

And good set of headphpnes helps for sure

Then again i havent raced 3rd person for the last 2 betas

As an analogy: "A blind person can learn to read and be aware of ones surroundings with a lot of practice and determination, but I'm sure they'd rather have their sight back." 

Personally I don't think we shouldn't be praising and basically saying a feature is adequate in GPB that is quite clearly not adequate for the job if we want GPB to be the best sim on the market.
If the sound system is not up to the task(which it clearly is not), then we should say so. Only then will Piboso see a need to change it.

Oh don't get me wrong, Improvements are definitely needed.

It needs work, but maybe not a complete overhaul. Then again, starting from scratch might be a better option for coding reasons

[HornetMaX]

GPB already has positional sound (I guess that's what Hawk calls 3d sound), via openAL.

@Bob: Unless there is something in the sound system that we are not aware of, the bike sounds are mono, so how can you hear the sounds definitely coming from left or right in your headphones? Your describing stereo sound and GPB hasn't got that capability as far as I know? But then again there are many things Piboso doesn't tell us that would be useful for us to know so that wouldn't come as any surprise. Lol 

You hear it coming from left/right because the (mono) sound source is at your left/right.
The sample being mono doesn't mean the whole game is mono, they are two different things.
The sound engine places  the (mono) samples in the 3d world and compute the stereo sound you finally hear.

Basic needs for decent sound: a decent soundcard and a decent headset. If any of the two is missing, you're off for a bad start.

Side note: some bikes have sounds that are too loud with respect to the others (e.g. the GP12, if I recall correctly).

MaX.

[Hawk]

GPB already has positional sound (I guess that's what Hawk calls 3d sound), via openAL.

@Bob: Unless there is something in the sound system that we are not aware of, the bike sounds are mono, so how can you hear the sounds definitely coming from left or right in your headphones? Your describing stereo sound and GPB hasn't got that capability as far as I know? But then again there are many things Piboso doesn't tell us that would be useful for us to know so that wouldn't come as any surprise. Lol 

You hear it coming from left/right because the (mono) sound source is at your left/right.
The sample being mono doesn't mean the whole game is mono, they are two different things.
The sound engine places  the (mono) samples in the 3d world and compute the stereo sound you finally hear.

Basic needs for decent sound: a decent soundcard and a decent headset. If any of the two is missing, you're off for a bad start.

Side note: some bikes have sounds that are too loud with respect to the others (e.g. the GP12, if I recall correctly).

MaX.

So stereo sound is computed in GPB then? Then I have to ask why isn't that so obvious through normal speakers if it's obvious in headsets? I have a set of good speakers and the stereo effect is non existent as far as I described in my first post, so I have to say something is not right somewhere? Just thinking out loud here, but maybe the problem is that the sound effect reception is not centred at the riders helmet?

I agree that bike engine sounds on some bikes are way to loud, but that is down to the bike sound modders and not Piboso. But I also think that being able to define the bike engine sound in the sim would require a more sophisticated sound sampling and maybe even a more sophisticated way of putting those sounds together so riders are able to hear a greater range of sounds in engine noise depending on the different rpm ranges that you would be able to hear and able to define on a start grid for instance? I've also said this before that the sound of your own bikes engine noise is different when your sat on the bike than what someone else would hear who was several feet away and also as to whether that person was in front, sides, or rear of your bike, the sounds would all be subtly different too, and we need all those subtle ranges of sounds for greater situational awareness.

Just some thoughts.

Hawk.
PS: I have a decent sound card too. 

[HornetMaX]

So stereo sound is computed in GPB then?

Yes, definitely.

Simple test: stand still on your bike and ask another rider to do turns around your bike: you should be able to localise the bike (at least left/right).
Needs a track wide enough ... MXB pit area would do it (MXB has same sound engine of GPB).

Then I have to ask why isn't that so obvious through normal speakers if it's obvious in headsets?

In general, you get a better localization using a (good) headset. This is one of the reasons why all FPS players (except casual ones) use headsets instead of speakers.
Speakers interact too much with the environment: how are they positioned ? 40cm apart or 2m apart ? On the floor or on a shelf ? ...
Also, many like the idea to have a subwoofer: this is all nice to impress your neighbors, but if you want to detect and spatially loclalise a tiny step (in a FPS), then it's probably the worst thing you can do. For GPB the issue is not that extreme though.

I agree that bike engine sounds on some bikes are way to loud, but that is down to the bike sound modders and not Piboso.

True, but I never said the contrary.

MaX.

[Napalm Nick]

I don't want to use a headset, I have an 8 channel surround system. Perfect for other racing games as far as rival location goes. My dog enjoys 'howling with the pack' when i go out on the RS250 .The game sound is bad and gives me very little idea (especially) how far away another bike is. Yes another way to see the sound change is to look left and right while sat on the bike and you can detect the shift in sound as your virtual ears rotate.

I was convinced a Ducati was about to overtake me in that race and actually he was on a different part of the track coming towards me. Appreciate sound levels should be 'normalized to an agreed level' by the bike creator too.

I guess minimally a true stereo sound would make it a lot better, like Hawk suggests, the way it is now doesn't really work.

[HornetMaX]

I guess minimally a true stereo sound would make it a lot better, like Hawk suggests, the way it is now doesn't really work.

IT.ALREADY.IS.STEREO.

So OK, it may not be good enough, it may have a problem when multiple bikes are close (grid start) and whatever else, but please don't say stuff like "making it stereo would already be an improvement". Makes no sense.

MaX.

[Napalm Nick]

No. Need . To. Be .rude. we aren't .all . Genius's 

Routing a mono sound into different channels is not stereo. And if this isn't happening....thats what it sounds like.

So the point is making the sound SOUND like stereo would be a good minimal start. Makes perfect sense to me.

Edit: added a Smiley cos I was rude.

[-aGy-]

my suggestion is that we need arrows that appear on the screen where your opponent is. of course we need good sounds but maybe this is easyer to do and be added SOON.

[Napalm Nick]

Good idea, as seen in other games. I am wary of that though because these other games are usually in the 'arcade' genre rather than hardcore simulator.
However if there's one thing I've learned, its that a sim has to make certain compromises to overcome real-life limitations to be a good 'game'.
So worth considering yep.