Hello from Germany

[doNico]

Sooo,

I finally bought the full version of the game because i was angry i used to crash every single minute in the demo.
I live next to the Sachsenring in Germany and im myself a motorcycle racer. Im not racing with anything modern, i use to race a Honda RC 181 Replica and an old YZF R6 of 1999. Id say, ive been pretty successful in the past few years. I became 2nd in the championchip this year (Klassik Supersort) just to spoil out something.

As i told you, i was pretty angry about crashing all the time in the demo. Ive raced nearly all kinds of bikes allready. Old TZ 350, modern S1000 RR and ofcourse my bikes (just to tell some).
After i got my key, i followed some instructions to use SSP bikes at the beginning, just to get in touch and to get a feeling for the game. I know, it might be a "black zone" to talk about Milestones racing games but i have to say its a huuuge difference. Everything is kinda harder.  In some facts, i like the realism but some of the behaviors are pretty unrealistic (dont slap me for that please ).
As i told you, i live next to the Sachsenring and i use to train there every now and than. I NEVER EVER had a low sider while turning slowly around a corner, i never ever felt off the bike while turning from stand... also the movement coming out any faster corners ... puhh, im not sure if i had ever moments like this ...

Well, please dont put me into the group "Ohh, someone like him AGAIN" ... i just dont understand some parts of the sim, thats all.
I really want to get used to the game because its really great ...   

Kind regards

~doN

[Napalm Nick]

Hehe welcome doNico!

I'm sure PiBoSo will be glad to hear your experienced comments and suggestions to help him develop his game.

All I suggest is have a good read round the forum to get a feel for where the game is (physics wise) at this Beta stage.

And try not to get too angry 

Plenty of German players here too and some of them ain't too bad lol   

Enjoy.

[Napalm Nick]

Another thing I would mention is GPBikes allows you to fall off, like in real life if you did something wrong, or tried to fall off you could.
In crappy (my opinion only) arcade games like Millstone you can't do anything stupid because it won't let you. Its purely a game, practically no training needed. Great for a quick blast round a track, a trophy and winning stories to impress your kiddies and you are done.

I guess ultimately its what people want. Something to learn and develop skills or a quick winning feeling. Personally I get no great satisfaction from arcade games. When I win my subconscious says "well done you got some pixels round the screen fast there buddy".   

I suppose if you wired your controller to your bike and went out you wouldn't win a race for a while either. Not until you practiced with it for months, much like you have to do here. Gpbikes is a  not-perfect bike model that unfortunately we control with something alien to a bike. Learning these differences and the brain/hand training needed takes time.

The bike model is not perfect yet (Beta) and probably can never be if we are honest. The control method is unrealistic. And its a game. So we dream of it being like a real bike but compromises have to be made. If we thought this would ever be 'just like riding a real bike', we have to admit we are delusional lol.

Just some thoughts mate based on some discussions already had here. Hope it helps. All we can do is suggest changes from our experiences to try and get it as good as we can.

[doNico]

Wow, thanks man ...

i fully understand the need of training, without it you lose, whatever you do. The fact about Milestones "arcadish" games is pretty dam right! It wont let you fall of that quick.
Dont understand me wrong, i used to ride some laps on the Sachsenring in GPB , the track in real life is pretty strange and is supposed to be a "riders track". There are alot of different type of corners, speeds and of coures lines to choose than you sometimes expect. If you try to use the "real life" line in game, you instandly crash (of course, the track is "just made by a program" and not real, but if you know whats possible in real life and try it in game and crash all the time ... i mean, it gotta make  you angry you know
I dont know why but for me the best bike is the stock 500 2 stroke in game. I think its the only bike (instead of the 125) i didnt crash that much. At the time, its not possible to take the BMW or any 600 to get a good feeling and a line around any track.

Hopefully ill get better soon

~doN

[Blackheart]

Hi, and hellcome... ups, welcome 

As mentioned, we are still in beta 6 ... physics will change much yet, but already you can see 90% of the time a realistic bike reaction. The Milestone games... they create intestinal disorders 

[matty0l215]

Hi doN

Welcome to the community

It's good to see more riders joining us 

[Napalm Nick]

, but if you know whats possible in real life and try it in game and crash all the time ... i mean, it gotta make  you angry you know

~doN

Yes mate don't get me wrong, we all get angry with the unrealistic bits to be honest. Hence the race rage-quitting which is a bit of a plague at the moment!  . Hence the utter hope placed in getting each new Beta release. Hopefully another one very soon!
When you find a bit that is unrealistic see if it is in the bugs section and if not get it posted there. PiB reads those bug reports with interest.

[Super Taranta !]

Hello mate

[HornetMaX]

How much have you played GPB up to now ?

I'm asking because GPB has a rather steep learning curve, no matter if you are a pro rider, a baker or youtube star in real life.
Mostly, it's not that you need to know how a bike works, it's that you need to understand how the bike in GPB reacts to what you do with your controller (pad).

If the bike you crash less with is the 500cc, then you're doing something "wrong" (wrong for GPB).

I've witnessed people lap at wicked fast times for 20 laps with no fall while others can't even have two half-decent laps without crashing.
At least with respect to this, it is sort of more realistic than any other bike game in which a 12yrs old can kick the hell out of anybody

MaX.

[Alby46]

hi and welcome 

[doNico]

How much have you played GPB up to now ?

I'm asking because GPB has a rather steep learning curve, no matter if you are a pro rider, a baker or youtube star in real life.
Mostly, it's not that you need to know how a bike works, it's that you need to understand how the bike in GPB reacts to what you do with your controller (pad).

If the bike you crash less with is the 500cc, then you're doing something "wrong" (wrong for GPB).

I've witnessed people lap at wicked fast times for 20 laps with no fall while others can't even have two half-decent laps without crashing.
At least with respect to this, it is sort of more realistic than any other bike game in which a 12yrs old can kick the hell out of anybody

MaX.

Hey max,

First of all, Thanks for the warm welcome. I started playing on tuesday i think. Dont laugh at me lol... Normally im getting used to any game pretty quick.
I know that i might Do something wrong. Ive seen so many videos on youtube and w/e...
The thing i dont get at the time...  trail braking  is for me nearly impossible. Im using the xbox 360 controller, throttle rb, brake lb turning left analog and rear brake right analog stick (down). On the 125 my Best lap was a 1.38 low on the Sachsenring... But im not able to Do 2 laps with all the right apexes and turn in points. Also, the lean angle. On my r6, im not able to lean more than my tyres would let me... You know? ... One more thing, if you open the throttle while turning, the bike should oversteer (under control of coures) and not understeer. To get faster in real life i read the books of Keith Code because i asked myself "what am i doing wrong? How is it possible to get fester? Where are my weak points and Where the stronger one?" all this stuff is written in there pretty amazing and understandable ...  Pretty off topic i know... Ill try to get my two Cents in as good as possible...

~doN

[HornetMaX]

Hey max,

First of all, Thanks for the warm welcome. I started playing on tuesday i think. Dont laugh at me lol... Normally im getting used to any game pretty quick.

OK, I won't, but I'm making an exception here just for you, because usually I would laugh at that "since tuesday"

I think GPB can safely be classified in the top-tier of the most frustrating games ever: if you play it constantly for 1 month and then look back at what you're saying now, you'll understand what I mean

On the rest, in random order:

• The default 125 bike is probably the worst one. It badly needs some physics tuning. Use the default 990 (careful, it has some decent power...) or some mod bikes that seems to be rather good (sbk, wss)
• Over/under steering: controlled sliding (on power) is a bit of a problem at the moment in GPB: that may explain what you feel.
• Keith Code: he's pretty popular around here

Forgot to add: I'm personally glad to have another GPB forum member with respectable track experience, we do need people like you ! Welcome.

MaX.

[doNico]

ohhh how nice of you

Yes, having some track experience is a good thing for a simulation game like yours but sometimes it makes you worried about stuff you shouldnt care about that much (ist JUST a game).
Frustrating ... uhh, i think thats not right, id rather say ist challenging  I hope, im able to do some good progress in the next few days/weeks and so on. For me its good to read alot of stuff like "its impossible to play this game" and so on ... that Shows, that im not alone on the world having a hard time.

~doN

PS: I would LOVE to do a Training at the Cali. SBK School just once

[Stout Johnson]

Hey Nico,

a warm welcome from me too. Since I also live near Sachsenring, I felt inclined to welcome my homie here

First off, like said by others: Very good to have somone with respectable track experience here. That might come in handy when it comes to discussing some things of bike behaviour. Almost all of the more active users here do have extensive bike riding experience, but having track experience is just another story as those guys just have more experiencing how a bike behaves right on the limit.

Secondly like MaX said, don't try to judge after roughly a week of riding experience in GPB. You will learn so much more and you will get much more stable with practice over time. Good thing is, that you already know which lines to use on a bike. That is the thing that takes other newcomers most time to get adapted to.

You said, that you like the realism but that some bike behaviour is quite unrealistic. Well it is a sim in beta state, so that is what you would expect but it is true. Good thing is, that Piboso has finalized the extent of the physics model, but he acknowledged that parameters need tuning to get it ultimately realistic. Unfortunately he doesn't give very much info on what he focuses on physics wise.

You said that, you do not seem to be able to use the lines like you do in real life. I can tell you, that in general you in fact can use the same lines as irl (and have to in order to be fast). Some issues in GPB keep one from doing that in all situations. On Sachsenring, especially on the last corner into finish straight you randomly lowside. This happens on other tracks too. The issue is known to Piboso and he (hopefully) is working on it. It is related to phyiscs problems on corners with height differences. My personal opinion is, that it is also related to the virtual rider. As Sachsenring has many banked corners, corners with height differences the problem may arise at other corners as well. Also it helps if you can switch from lean to lean smoothly in GPB, not sure whether you are already capable of doing that, given that you are relatively new to the sim.

Speaking of all that, the biggest challenge/deficiency related is that there is no really good reality like controller on the market for a bike sim (if there might, it def will not be affordable for non-millionaires). For car sims, you buy a ffb wheel and you are to some degree ready to go and you somehow have reality-like controls. This lack of a good controller makes the virtual rider sort of unavoidable and that makes this bike sim utterly complex. It is even hard to distinguish between physics behaviour and virtual rider behaviour. Some hardcore users manage to ride the bike in hardcore mode without virtual rider in between, but they do not seem to be able to ride ultra fast (as far as I know Klax ) I have fiddled with hardcode mode for a while. But I figured that without a reality like controller it feels too artificial for me. For example irl, I do not have to think about counter-steering when entering a corner, it comes automated. Whereas when using hard code mode with a xbox controller I always have to think about what I do. For me a real-life-like controller, in theory I am thinking of using a handlebar and somehow controlling hanging off with my upper body or head movement. I do have some ideas, but have not really taken steps to try it.

You also mentioned having issues coming into a controlled trailbrake. One reason for this seems to be the virtual rider. Not sure whether the users that ride in hard-code mode can comment on that, whether they have ever been able to trailbrake into a corner. Another reason imo is that in GPB there seems to be a very thin grip level right on the limit. For me it seems like "grip ok"-"grip ok"-"grip ok"-"no grip" which makes it hard to do a controlled slide, be it on the brakes or doing a power slide.

Whatever, this is by far the most advanced bike sim so far. But it has some beta-state related issues. You have to be aware of that. Ultra-enjoyment and frustration sometimes are very close to each other. I hope we will see each other on track, maybe we can do some laps sometime soon together mate

See ya!

[G0G]

ohhh how nice of you

Yes, having some track experience is a good thing for a simulation game like yours but sometimes it makes you worried about stuff you shouldnt care about that much (ist JUST a game).

Greetings fellow racer.  I hope you find a way to ride in this sim! I am curious which view do you use for cockpit?
If you have done some laps at the real Sachsenring, the first lap of this video will look very familiar to a real racer who is hanging poff his bike.  I this sim demo, am looking around the track with my mouse(mouse-look). This is the only exacting, 100% accurate rider POV in this sim. The difficulty is extremely hard because of lack of controllers/better setup. If you have ridden Sachsenring, you will recognize the POV angles from the bike. 
Since this early Beta, the sim has changed a lot. The rider is now stuck up high on the bike.  The virtual rider is not hanging off very much anymore. Definitely not going low enough to be realistic. Making it more unrealistic than in the beginning. Technically, the sim is going backwards in some ways.

S1000rr forever!
First lap = Rider/RACER POV(point of view)
Cheers, race smart!

https://youtu.be/iQP2Bjd24J0