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Brexit or not ?

Started by HornetMaX, June 20, 2016, 10:38:16 PM

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HornetMaX

And some extra doom mongering, just to be sure:

QuoteMichael Dougan, professor of European law at Liverpool University, also pointed out that any UK application to join Norway as a signatory to the European economic agreement – a means of maintaining access to the EU single market – could be vetoed by any single one of the remaining 27 EU member states, the four members of the European free trade area (EFTA) and the European parliament, meaning 31 different institutions or states could block the UK signing the EEA.

The EEA is seen by some as the best stopping off point for the UK, since it retains UK access to the EU single market, but all EEA members are required to apply the principle of the free movement of people.

The chances of the UK negotiating an exemption on free movement under the EU is sharply reduced if 30 different states and institutions could veto the agreement. Dougan said only armchair lawyers thought the EEA provided any flexibility on free movement of workers.

He added the legislative complexity of disentangling the UK from the EU will require a large surrender of power from parliament to executive. He also pointed out Britain would still be bound by the judgments of international courts under any serious international free trade agreement with other countries.

He said the UK would be bound by the rulings of an EFTA supervisory court, and these were part of international law, so making them binding on the UK.

He added: "In practice the scholarship from Norway and Iceland tells us there is not an enormous amount of difference from the effect of EEA law within those member states [and the effect of EU law in EU member states]."

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 05, 2016, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: Hawk on July 05, 2016, 11:57:34 AM
Brain-washed Max, you've been brain-washed mate! Lol! :P  ;D
Yawn, OK. Get out, close your borders and all your problems are gone instantly. By the way, if you can move your border from Calais back to the UK, that would be much appreciated here in France. You want to take control of your immigration, no ? So let's start putting your border in the UK instead of France. Unsurprisingly, many leaders here in France are already asking to review the "Le Touquet" agreement ... I'm sure you'll say it's retaliation ...

H is right....
The French have a terrible record of controlling illegal immigrants entering their country. It's about time they started to take the problem seriously or we'll just dump them back were they came from(France).  :P

Hawk.

h106frp

And if the reasons that draw them here are curtailed they will not want to leave the EU anyway.

The only people i see benefiting from open borders are criminals - its a noble idea but at the end of the day just folly.

Toomes1

Lol, wow some people have a a dull life..always seems to rain on them.

JJS209

Quote from: Hawk on July 05, 2016, 05:26:41 PM
It's about time they started to take the problem seriously or we'll just dump them back were they came from(France).  :P

Hawk.
what about humanity, equality and social thinking?

just try to imagine you were one of them coming from a state like Iraq, Syria or Tunisia.
wtf is wrong with these "europeans", for e.g. the hungarians, british and polish people?

my personal opinion:
kick everyone out of the EU who wouldnt work on the aforementioned things. small-minded and egoistic countrys!
those who shouts the loudest to close the borders for war refugees are the most unimportant (economical) countrys in the EU. why?

lets see how far they will come. poland for e.g.  would be the same country as 20 years ago if there would not have been the "bad" EU with its subsidy programms. and now they have a right goverment...
GB will rise import- and exportcosts only for their own people - on the other hand it is a good bad-example of how-not-to and i think the rest of the EU could learn a lot of the british behavior.

h106frp

I believe it is France that is the country threatening to use these unfortunate souls as an economic and political weapon - not the UK.

Many of these migrants are from countries that are not at war i.e. they are not refugees and that is a big part of the current problem as even in the EU they do not qualify for the protection that refugee status would entitle them too. Why do you think so many abandon their identification on the shores of Turkey before attempting to enter the EU?

Gzehoo

July 06, 2016, 04:40:03 PM #381 Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 04:42:32 PM by Gzehoo
Quote from: JJS209Poland for e.g.  would be the same country as 20 years ago if there would not have been the "bad" EU with its subsidy programms. and now they have a right goverment...

Poland at this moment cannot have their own government, even elected in a democratic way because the greatest loosers of the last election decided to accuse Polish government for "destroying the democracy". SRSLY?

70% of Polish newspapers/TV channels are controlled by German corporations like Ringier Axel Springer. Can you imagine that in Great Britain 70% of newspapers/TV channels are controlled by German corporation which have their own people and making a propaganda against UK? And we still have it, damned liberal propaganda from over 25 years of "freedom". And true conservatives are pushed on second plan because they want to make Poland more independent. They want to keep citizen's money in their wallets. But for liberals like PiS and PO, it's better to say "we'll give you a lot of money from EU" or "family 500+" (~112€ per month for every children under 18 years), without telling people that they have to pay more and greater taxes, and the government need to steal 150€ to give you 100€. No EU resolution about tax-free allowance in the Poland, where it's "only" 730€? (to compare, Netherland - 2100€)

I didn't vote for current ruling party (Right and Justice - PiS), but all EU observes didn't see what Citizen Platform (PO) made during 8 years; how many scandals with PO there were in Poland, how much people made a protest against the government. And the greatest traitor in the Poland, Donald Tusk, escaped before justice in Poland to Brussels for a hot seat in EU. And he knows that justice is waiting for him in the Poland.

Believe me or not - PiS and PO are the same parties, the differences between them are very small. But it's made as something great. People in the Poland are forgetting that they were going to make a collaboration in 2005 after PiS won an elections. And some people who were in PiS, are now in PO and vice versa. And people who don't change their views from 30 years (like Janusz Korwin-Mikke) and tell the truth about current (and previous) government, are called "fascists".


And now, after Brexit, we are called "cockroaches". Because we would also vote for Brexit. Because we would also vote for "Polexit". Because "Polish cockroaches" are bad, but immigrants from Asia/Africa are cool.

PS: I don't have anything against Germans, Brits and anybody else on this forum, hope we can have a good relationship, no matter about our nationalities and no matter about current policy.

Hawk

Quote from: JJS209 on July 06, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Hawk on July 05, 2016, 05:26:41 PM
It's about time they started to take the problem seriously or we'll just dump them back were they came from(France).  :P

Hawk.
what about humanity, equality and social thinking?

just try to imagine you were one of them coming from a state like Iraq, Syria or Tunisia.
wtf is wrong with these "europeans", for e.g. the hungarians, british and polish people?

my personal opinion:
kick everyone out of the EU who wouldnt work on the aforementioned things. small-minded and egoistic countrys!
those who shouts the loudest to close the borders for war refugees are the most unimportant (economical) countrys in the EU. why?

lets see how far they will come. poland for e.g.  would be the same country as 20 years ago if there would not have been the "bad" EU with its subsidy programms. and now they have a right goverment...
GB will rise import- and exportcosts only for their own people - on the other hand it is a good bad-example of how-not-to and i think the rest of the EU could learn a lot of the british behavior.

As far as my remark you quoted.... the last part about dumping them back in France was just me being flippant. Obviously that wouldn't happen without consequences for the UK so.... Lol  ;D

But countries can only do so much. They cannot help everyone so were do they start to draw the line, and how and when? You tell me?

But as the old saying goes..... "Charity begins at home". There's nothing more truer than that.  :)

Hawk.

HornetMaX

France isn't threatening anything. France has made it very clear they respect the UK decision of leaving: nobody is trying to scare you back in.
Rediscussing the Touquet agreement is something that makes instant sense as soon as the UK fires art50, so that's what will happen.

Only a fool could have swallowed the promise "Don't worry, we get out of the EU but everything currently in place will stay".

You think you can deal better with irregular immigrants ? I'm eager to see that, show us.
It's a tad easier to do it when you only have one tiny border to watch and you delegate the responsibility of it on others ...

HornetMaX

Quote from: Gzehoo on July 06, 2016, 04:40:03 PM
And now, after Brexit, we are called "cockroaches". Because we would also vote for Brexit. Because we would also vote for "Polexit". Because "Polish cockroaches" are bad, but immigrants from Asia/Africa are cool.
Do you remember who was really scared about Polish immigration when Poland joined the EU ? The ones making jokes about Polish plumbers invading France and the UK ?
The very ones that are against Europe ... the UK and FR "nationalists" ...

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 06, 2016, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: Gzehoo on July 06, 2016, 04:40:03 PM
And now, after Brexit, we are called "cockroaches". Because we would also vote for Brexit. Because we would also vote for "Polexit". Because "Polish cockroaches" are bad, but immigrants from Asia/Africa are cool.
Do you remember who was really scared about Polish immigration when Poland joined the EU ? The ones making jokes about Polish plumbers invading France and the UK ?
The very ones that are against Europe ... the UK and FR "nationalists" ...
Seeing as the UK Nationalists are in a very small minority, and probably the same in France too, then there's nothing to worry about is there.  :P

Hawk.

BozoCRO

So the only thing still holding it together is business interests?

HornetMaX

Quote from: BozoCRO on July 06, 2016, 05:23:22 PM
So the only thing still holding it together is business interests?
For some member (and ex-member) states, unfortunately yes. That's disappointing.


h106frp

Strangely, some of the most vocal warnings locally came from the established Polish community, and it was also one of the first casualties with their community disappearing and social club which was enjoyed by many closing down to be replaced with a small high density housing (flats) project.
I knew many from school and grew up with them, they were great family people and my first encounter with people who had happily integrated with an existing society but managed to enjoy their cultural identity - very different to what has happened with the economic (business driven) migrations experienced in the last few years.

HornetMaX

Which is more or less what I've seen here in FR: french plumbers did not disappear as a consequence of Polish being allowed to come to France.
Really, I don't see how much of a trouble free EU people movement is.