"File Encryption Tool" for modders use......

[Hawk]

NICE!!! I'm really pleased this post has got such a variety of reactions...... It really does shows up those who are willing to plagiarise others work and those who are decent people with reasonable arguments against encryption...... But more than anything I hope now those who've been using others work without asking first will now consider contacting the original authors instead of just assuming that, "everyone is plagiarising others work so what does it matter". 

But I'd be happy to put this request to rest by just saying, "We're all part of the same community here, and it doesn't take a lot of effort to consider others before yourself.... So let's all do the right thing by each other here before we start working on any mods and just ask before you use anyone else's work, eh?".  Keeps everyone happy. 

Hawk.
 

[HornetMaX]

It really does shows up those who are willing to plagiarise others work and those who are decent people with reasonable arguments against encryption......

Uh, not sure of the intended meaning of that ... it sounds strange.

Anyway, the same discussion already took place also on the MXB forum, for the very same reasons.
MXS (the rival of MXB) has the encryption feature and many in that community hate the fact you have plenty of paid-for modding content: you have to buy bikes and track to join online championships (for which you have to pay too). I'd hate that. You pay more for the modded bikes than for the game itself.

Not because I don't want to pay, but because I'll have the feeling that some "pro" modders will only work for the money.
If CAWS say "We will make an endurance bike set, you can donate a few quids for that", I'll chip in no hesitation.
If a random guy comes here and say "I have a pro-grade KTM 1290 model for GPB, 5$ per player" I'd say no thanks.

Similarly for KRP: there are online competitions with mod karts that are not given to the ones not in the competition (no money involved though as far as I know).
What happened: some smart ass managed to get the "private content" (mod kart) and then shitstorm came on the forum.

Side note: from the MXB discussion, if I recall correctly PiBoSo was not completely against paid-for modding (which may imply he may not be completely against encryption).

[matty0l215]

And no, asking for money for Mod's is stupid. If you want money for your work, go do it for a job and sell it properly. Or ask for a donation, I'm fine with that.

I had the same opinion I have on all game modding. No Mod should be locked by a pay wall unless it is endorsed by the original game dev (at which point it might as well be DLC for the game)

[PiBoSo]

Would an encryption tool increase the number of modders and the quality of mods?
If the answer is yes to both questions, then it can be done.

[Blackheart]

Would an encryption tool increase the number of modders and the quality of mods?

sarcasm? 

[PiBoSo]

Would an encryption tool increase the number of modders and the quality of mods?

sarcasm? 

No.
If encryption can bring to the community talented modders that are concerned about stealing, then it could be worth it.
What's your opinion?

[Blackheart]

Ah ok. 

I am of the opinion that we need  "official" mods definitely the sim creators are able to create higher quality mods. For example an SBK official mod with 3d models Temporary (for licensing problems) and these could be made encrypted on the physics but with the possibility for the modders to change the 3D model with the real one.

But for the modders stuff it is useless a Encryption Tool, none of our bike is perfect, leave the freedom for anyone to be able to improve them, it is only an advantage for this community.

I have respect for who make bikes (for fun or a real replica), but I think the realism is going down, because it is very difficult to create a good bikes set for gpb now 

IMO 

[Corrie]

Similarly for KRP: there are online competitions with mod karts that are not given to the ones not in the competition (no money involved though as far as I know).
What happened: some smart ass managed to get the "private content" (mod kart) and then shitstorm came on the forum.

I'd just like to clarify what happened. Those specific members who had gotten "private content" were removed from the series because they couldn't handle racing maturely. That is why the league went to an invite-only state. Unfortunately, that same group of people took .edf files (engine models made by me) and reposted them on the same forum as their own creation. That is why there was a shitstorm. People weren't being held accountable for not giving credit.

Encryption will not solve it - people will use model extraction software if they want it bad enough, but if anything, we should be giving unlimited access to the 3d files, not limiting access. With such small audiences, the communities would benefit (on the modding side) by having files completely open so examples are easier to show. For example, the GPB community makes their 3ds models available. That is FANTASTIC, and I wish that KRP's modders would do the same. On the same side of it, there has never once been a new kart mod for KRP. The reason for it is because very few people understand all the aspects of linking parts in 3ds max - as in, naming conventions and such were and still are very vague. If we had access to a base model (@PiBoSo) more people would be inclined to put their completely finished models into the sim.

A bit of a rant, but I think that the short solution is to become more strict on enforcing content theft... not encrypting files. But in the long term, ease of accessibility will build communities that learn from each other, not hiding 3d models from curious eyes. 

[Hawk]

Would an encryption tool increase the number of modders and the quality of mods?
If the answer is yes to both questions, then it can be done.

I think you have two very valid points there Piboso.

1: The work required to create high quality MODS would certainly be very much more encouraged if the files could be encrypted for sure, because I don't care what anyone says, work that constitutes a MOD doesn't entitle the community to use and abuse the contents of the work put into creating that MOD no more than the community is entitled to use and abuse content supplied direct from an official software developer. So I'd say "YES" it would encourage modders to put in the work required into creating high quality mods knowing that their work is protected. Definitely.

That's not to say that the same modders wouldn't continue to help those in the community that needed help and advice to create their own mods, because the more genuine modders out there producing good quality mods for your software the better. 

2: A file encryption tool would I'm sure increase the number of very capable modders(some we already have within our midst in the community), but good quality modders also need the tools to export the graphics and modelling work they are capable of doing in the app they work with. Quite a few great modders have come our way here only to disappear because the tools to export their work are not there. FBX converter is a great start but needs to be capable of exporting the shaders and maps direct from the FBX file and not have to create the .shd file which in effect means creating and applying the shaders/maps twice over(once in the 3D app and then again in the text.shd file to get the same effects), that is a big turn-off for sure.

So again I'd say "YES". A file encryption tool for modders would definitely encourage the numbers of high quality modders to work on MODS for your software, but I'd qualify that by adding that they would also need the tools too to export the work they are capable of doing direct from the FBX file without messing about having to create an additional .shd text file.

I'd just like to end this post by saying to one or two people here who seem to have the wrong impression or definition of a MOD: Modding is all about creating your own original content and not using or altering anyone else's work to achieve your goal, especially without permissions to do so.

Hawk.

[Vini]

Which "high quality modders" do you have in mind, Hawk?
You seem very sure that there are plenty of modders that will suddenly flock to GPB once it has encryption.



Also, if we start with this encryption non-sense we also have to start banning every mod that takes stuff from other games.
And then say hello to paid mods, less communication between modders and players, less mods in general etc.

We should listen to the ones who already know the results instead of speculating...

Encryption will not solve it - people will use model extraction software if they want it bad enough, but if anything, we should be giving unlimited access to the 3d files, not limiting access. With such small audiences, the communities would benefit (on the modding side) by having files completely open so examples are easier to show. For example, the GPB community makes their 3ds models available. That is FANTASTIC, and I wish that KRP's modders would do the same. On the same side of it, there has never once been a new kart mod for KRP. The reason for it is because very few people understand all the aspects of linking parts in 3ds max - as in, naming conventions and such were and still are very vague. If we had access to a base model (@PiBoSo) more people would be inclined to put their completely finished models into the sim.

A bit of a rant, but I think that the short solution is to become more strict on enforcing content theft... not encrypting files. But in the long term, ease of accessibility will build communities that learn from each other, not hiding 3d models from curious eyes.

[Hawk]

It really does show up those who are willing to plagiarise others work and those who are decent people with reasonable arguments against encryption......

Uh, not sure of the intended meaning of that ... it sounds strange.

That's okay Max, rest assured it wasn't aimed at you mate. 

Anyway, the same discussion already took place also on the MXB forum, for the very same reasons.
MXS (the rival of MXB) has the encryption feature and many in that community hate the fact you have plenty of paid-for modding content: you have to buy bikes and track to join online championships (for which you have to pay too). I'd hate that. You pay more for the modded bikes than for the game itself.

Not because I don't want to pay, but because I'll have the feeling that some "pro" modders will only work for the money.
If CAWS say "We will make an endurance bike set, you can donate a few quids for that", I'll chip in no hesitation.
If a random guy comes here and say "I have a pro-grade KTM 1290 model for GPB, 5$ per player" I'd say no thanks.

Similarly for KRP: there are online competitions with mod karts that are not given to the ones not in the competition (no money involved though as far as I know).
What happened: some smart ass managed to get the "private content" (mod kart) and then shitstorm came on the forum.

Side note: from the MXB discussion, if I recall correctly PiBoSo was not completely against paid-for modding (which may imply he may not be completely against encryption).

I think there are enough passionate people here in the community, some well capable of creating high quality mods, that we won't see paid for mods here. 

Hawk.

[Vini]

But more than anything I hope now those who've been using others work without asking first will now consider contacting the original authors instead of just assuming that, "everyone is plagiarising others work so what does it matter". 

Maybe just say who you are talking about if you want them to feel any consequences...

[Hawk]

Which "high quality modders" do you have in mind, Hawk?
You seem very sure that there are plenty of modders that will suddenly flock to GPB once it has encryption.

I qualified it. I suggest you read my post again Vin. 

Also, if we start with this encryption non-sense we also have to start banning every mod that takes stuff from other games.

That would be very hard to police, but it is a laudable goal to aim for. 

And then say hello to paid mods, less communication between modders and modder etc.

Only the selfish people we can do without here would ignore requests for help and advise, and yes we may get the odd unheard of modder try and publish a pay-for MOD, but I doubt they would get very far with it, and besides, if we can encourage high quality genuine mods then we wouldn't need to pay for any mods.  But why you associate all this doom and gloom on the release of an encryption tool I cannot imagine.... I suspect that you just prefer access to the bike files so you can play about with them, yes? 

Hawk.

[Vini]

Which "high quality modders" do you have in mind, Hawk?
You seem very sure that there are plenty of modders that will suddenly flock to GPB once it has encryption.

I qualified it. I suggest you read my post again Vin. 

I don't see it.

Also, if we start with this encryption non-sense we also have to start banning every mod that takes stuff from other games.

That would be very hard to police, but it is a laudable goal to aim for. 

So before thinking of introducing encryption you should think about how to make sure that nobody is stealing from other games.
If there is no way to police that, then how do you want to argue against people "abusing"/"stealing" (more suitable words would be "developing" or "improving") stuff from other modders?

And then say hello to paid mods, less communication between modders and modder etc.

Only the selfish people we can do without here would ignore requests for help and advise, and yes we may get the odd unheard of modder try and publish a pay-for MOD, but I doubt they would get very far with it, and besides, if we can encourage high quality genuine mods then we wouldn't need to pay for any mods.  But why you associate all this doom and gloom on the release of an encryption tool I cannot imagine.... I suspect that you just prefer access to the bike files so you can play about with them, yes? 

Obviously, because it's the most efficient way for this community as a whole to get new and/or improved mods, as Corrie has outlined. As long as credit is given, the original author doesn't lose anything.
That said, Manu has not given me permission to publish a modified version of his Moto2 bike so my experiments will remain private.

[Hawk]

But more than anything I hope now those who've been using others work without asking first will now consider contacting the original authors instead of just assuming that, "everyone is plagiarising others work so what does it matter". 

Maybe just say who you are talking about if you want them to feel any consequences...

Do I look like a banana Vin or what. Lol! 

Hawk.