iRacing to add karts

[grimm]

Might be a dumb question to ask, but I got myself a copy of Automobilista because, well, stadium super trucks. Anyway, there is a few different types of vehicle and I noticed karts, started messing with them (re-adjusted the G27 to suit such a vehicle) and kind of enjoyed it, for the first time, actually feel like I enjoy kart racing!

Here is why the question I want to ask feels stupid, is it at all comparable to the learning curve of KRP? I've honestly avoided buying KRP due to the fact that if I did, it would likely just be supporting Piboso more than actually buying it to enjoy it, and a spare chunk of money usually ends up in my motorcycles before I spend it on gaming unless it's truly a title I can't live without (Stadium Super Trucks was one of those "gotta have it" things). Is KRP anything like Automobilista? Better? (probably... but more "so" in terms of kart racing?)





Part of why I ask is also due to the fact my neighbor here in the city has become a pretty good friend of mine, but, he's in his late 50's and raced both auto clutch and shifter karts back in the 80's and 90's, locally of course, nobody special, but he speaks with great admiration about the folks that are really dedicated to it and seems to wish at times he could get back into it without all the cost and such.... (we are both mechanics and motorsport enthusiasts, so most of our time is spent hanging out in the shop, he hasn't quite seen what I do in the sim world) I happen to have a pretty impressive setup here at my place for sim racing, and think that one of these days, if I have a good kart sim on hand, I would offer this kind older gentleman the opportunity to hang out for an afternoon and turn some laps in a discipline he is quite fond of in motorsport, but, since I don't have a ton of experience in the form of karts or anything like it outside of sim racing, I'm curious more than anything what would deliver the most real world feel to someone who has never, ever touched a sim, but has been into the discipline in real life.

Fast laps in a tin top front wheel drive was something I brought into my first foray with a wheel on Live For Speed, and within a years time I was ranking top 10 in the world on hot lap charts, those days are far gone, but the skill learned in real life transferred directly into a really good sim, I assume for my friend, it may be the same way if the simulator is as accurate as possible.




Sorry for the OT here, just figure I would ask without starting up a totally different thread as I'm sure this off topic section post will either go unnoticed by the masses or completely disappear eventually anyway. 

[Stout Johnson]

offtopic@Grimm:
Automobilista is a good sim imo. I regularly do laps in Automobilista, but haven't spent too much time with the karts. For the few minutes I have tested Karts in Automobilista, I can say that I liked it, but I do feel that the feeling of driving a real kart is much better conveyed in KRP. But KRP definitely has a learning curve though. Which probably is an argument for being a good sim. Also, it is essential to have the steering configured correctly.

ontopic:

I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary.

I know what you mean. That dynamic track stuff definitely is a jewel. Do not get me wrong, it should def be in the sims and will really help Piboso's sims to stand out. BUT what I mean is, that business-wise it is just THE MOST important thing to establish the product on the market asap. There is not (not yet) a serious competitor on the market, but very likely to come rather soon (KK, maybe iracing?). And KRP is very advanced and only really lacks the online stability. And whenever this might eventually be sorted is very uncertain.

But it has been proven that without dynamic track surface Piboso's netcode is already rather stable and allows for online racing. So it would make much sense to release KRP without dynamic track feature online (it could be there for offline mode to showcase that it is already working). Piboso could establish KRP as THE best kart sim and generate some revenue. It would also help to not let his competitors become as big in the market. KK will most likely not be on par with KRP in terms of physics. But if Piboso allows KK to be the first kart sim in the market, then all this initial revenue will go to the devs of KK who in turn can use that profit to make KK better, even in terms of physics. Either way, it will hurt KRP (and consequently all other projects).

KRP needs to be out there asap, there is no way around it - everything else is playing russian roulette from a business stand-point.

Stop all other development until you can sort that and get one solid game out. And it fixes the issue across all platforms presumably.

+1

[Hawk]

+1 Stout.... Agree with all you say there above mate. 

Hawk.

[Cory_Hayes.11]

offtopic@Grimm:
Automobilista is a good sim imo. I regularly do laps in Automobilista, but haven't spent too much time with the karts. For the few minutes I have tested Karts in Automobilista, I can say that I liked it, but I do feel that the feeling of driving a real kart is much better conveyed in KRP. But KRP definitely has a learning curve though. Which probably is an argument for being a good sim. Also, it is essential to have the steering configured correctly.

ontopic:

I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary.

I know what you mean. That dynamic track stuff definitely is a jewel. Do not get me wrong, it should def be in the sims and will really help Piboso's sims to stand out. BUT what I mean is, that business-wise it is just THE MOST important thing to establish the product on the market asap. There is not (not yet) a serious competitor on the market, but very likely to come rather soon (KK, maybe iracing?). And KRP is very advanced and only really lacks the online stability. And whenever this might eventually be sorted is very uncertain.

But it has been proven that without dynamic track surface Piboso's netcode is already rather stable and allows for online racing. So it would make much sense to release KRP without dynamic track feature online (it could be there for offline mode to showcase that it is already working). Piboso could establish KRP as THE best kart sim and generate some revenue. It would also help to not let his competitors become as big in the market. KK will most likely not be on par with KRP in terms of physics. But if Piboso allows KK to be the first kart sim in the market, then all this initial revenue will go to the devs of KK who in turn can use that profit to make KK better, even in terms of physics. Either way, it will hurt KRP (and consequently all other projects).

KRP needs to be out there asap, there is no way around it - everything else is playing russian roulette from a business stand-point.

Stop all other development until you can sort that and get one solid game out. And it fixes the issue across all platforms presumably.

+1

Look, no I know either PiBoSo will delete my comment, or I will have my head ripped off.

But I am a beta tester for KartKraft, and I can confirm that KartKrafts physics are basically at this point better than KRP in most situations, the only thing really off about KK at the moment is that fact that it has the fixed setup and the kart does have initial turn in understeer which does make the game feel sluggish in some points, but still when you get to certain corners that lets say "suits" the setup, the kart feels perfect.

I know I am going to get mobbed for saying that, but this is a public discussion where all opinions should be welcome so yeah.

Cory.

[Stout Johnson]

If you indeed are a beta tester and this is your opinion, so be it. I bet if there are others who would have the possibility to directly compare, there would be a reasonable share to vote for KRP feeling more realistic. It does not really matter in the question on when Piboso should release his sim. He needs to get his sim out asap either way.

[Cory_Hayes.11]

http://steamcommunity.com/id/CoryHayesAU

^^^^^^

Just to prove I have access to KK

[HornetMaX]

Look, no I know either PiBoSo will delete my comment, or I will have my head ripped off.

I see no valid reason for either to happen. And I think none of them will actually happen.

[Hawk]

@Cory_Hayes.11: As a KK beta tester, I presume you have real experience in Kart Racing?

Hawk.

[grimm]

Even with a few replies it pretty much settles it, I'll grab a copy of KRP and get a good wheel setup (pretty sure people have discussed that plenty on the KRP forum too) and spend some time with it. After posting yesterday it dawned on me KRP has dynamic surface, tear offs, and rain! Pretty much a done deal at those three features alone, and if I can get around a track on Automobilista with a shifter kart without feeling like I'm doing weird things to make it happen (kart racing in the sim world always felt way too "on edge" compared to what real life video's look like where there is room for correction) and if KRP has a better feel to it with far more focus and features, I'm totally in for a copy of it. 

The preview video's I've seen around for Kart Kraft looked good, but, I'm really not dedicated to one form or another of sim racing so it stands to reason that picking a sim with the most features and development still going forward would be the ideal route to go at the moment (especially if it's a decently accurate representation of that form of racing). If I do get more into it though, just like motorcycle sims/games, I'll likely pick up all the titles I can get my hands on though, just needed a jump off point and Automobilista really jump started that when I was running Super Kart (wtf is in those things? Nuclear reactors for engines? lol) and having a blast trying to beat the AI through 4 laps at 110% difficulty and full aggression, from midfield, on a fast rolling start. 

[PiBoSo]

If you indeed are a beta tester and this is your opinion, so be it. I bet if there are others who would have the possibility to directly compare, there would be a reasonable share to vote for KRP feeling more realistic.

Cory is just a KK fanboy, that for some unknown reason has decided to keep pestering my forums with his annoying presence.
I received messages from several persons I trust, real kart racers, that tried the KK beta and labelled it as bad arcade. Not that it was necessary, really. The leaked videos ( that Zach understandably hurried to have taken down immediately ) speak for themselves about the "physics".

This doesn't mean that KK is not a huge threat to KRP, though. Because sadly, as pCars and AC have shown, most persons ( even self-proclaimed simmers ) prefer shiny graphics and AI to accurate simulation.
However, stopping all other projects to focus on KRP only is not an option. For two main reasons: 1) working on other projects gives a lot of ideas for KRP, like WRS dampers' tuning helped with tuning of the kart chassis flex, or work on tyre-soil interaction should help with the 3D kerbs problem 2) it wouldn't be correct towards the GPB, WRS and MXB users.
Releasing KRP on Steam before KK will not change much anyway... BlackDelta is packed with money and is a marketing powerhouse.

A final thought: in the long-term, the real money-maker is going to be MX Bikes, by far 

[HornetMaX]

A final thought: in the long-term, the real money-maker is going to be MX Bikes, by far 

Minor consolation: at least it's bikes

[Cory_Hayes.11]

@Hawk

Started in 2004, currently still racing.

@PiBoSo

Put my "fan boy" opinion aside, and think of my comments here as an opinion like any other member, you don't really think I would literally jump into a bigger pond ( this forum ) purely trying to bash you, knowing that if I were to try harass you that I would have plenty people trying to roast me, right?

You do talk about what the physics look like via video, that is basically the same as judging a book by its cover, you would actually have to try the game for yourself to truly have a valid opinion, I could imagine who the people are that you have talked to about KartKraft and them having an opinion that views the game as a bad arcade or something along those lines, but if you asked around you will find that a lot more people would find the game good/real, not trying to put myself in the position of "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" but I personally on the closed sections of the KK forum have seen more position reviews of the game than negative, again, down to opinion of the game, no ones opinion is wrong.

[PiBoSo]

You do talk about what the physics look like via video, that is basically the same as judging a book by its cover, you would actually have to try the game for yourself to truly have a valid opinion, I could imagine who the people are that you have talked to about KartKraft and them having an opinion that views the game as a bad arcade or something along those lines, but if you asked around you will find that a lot more people would find the game good/real, not trying to put myself in the position of "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" but I personally on the closed sections of the KK forum have seen more position reviews of the game than negative, again, down to opinion of the game, no ones opinion is wrong.

In this case, the equivalent of judging a book by its cover would be to judge the physics by screenshots. Videos can tell a lot more, especially if the handling is so arcade.
Anyway, what really count are the opinions of real kart racers, even persons that were eagerly awaiting KK and publicly posted about how it would have destroyed KRP... Several of them wrote me how they changed mind and to congratulate my work ( unfortunately only in private... ).

P.S.
Some opinions are wrong... For example, I could have the opinion that the Moon is made of cheese, but that would be WRONG 

[Phathry25]

PiBoSo, you want access to my steam account to try out the KK beta?

[PiBoSo]

PiBoSo, you want access to my steam account to try out the KK beta?

Thank you very much for the offer, but I think this would be a breach of the NDA.
Also, I never try other sims ( or wannabe sims  ). I only use my own to test new features and bug fixes, and wait for users' feedback and suggestions