GP Bikes beta9

[Hawk]

Jamoz, could not agree more, my thoughts exactly

With all due respect JamoZ, anyone organising a race event doesn't want the type of riders taking part who rage quit or quit just because they feel they have no chance of winning the race; we all know the type of person I'm talking about...

As for fun..... THIS IS FUN JamoZ!  Embrace it man!
But maybe your talking about the sort of fun that resides in the online FPS games were you can run around without fear of getting shot because you know you can respawn straight away and continue unimpeded? They would be much more fun if one shot and you were dead and out of the game, but they pander to the mass market of Gameboys who think respawn even after your shot is better fun... Mmm, I'd hate to see that sort of attitude come to simulation related events.

Server hosts and event organisers hold most of the power, if they'd actively help stamp out the gameboy attitudes then online events would be so much better.   

Just give the new respawn time mate, it'll grow on you! 

Hawk

It think what jamoz meant was aside from people that quit before the finish in casual events, crashing your bike in a race (could be someone elses fault) and completely losing sight of anyone for the next twenty laps is just no fun. If i lose 10 sec i know there is a chance to make up for it with good driving, but if i lose 30 sec because of an unlucky reset all competitiveness is gone and anything to race for is lost. Yes i will still finish the race but in my mind i already quit since a 30sec gap you will realistically not close within the same race. The variable time it will take for people to get back on track after a crash will completely spread out the field and it will basically be a single player experience. People that crash together always were able to continue the battle because of similar resets, same holds for peope that crashed the same amount of time, in previous betas they would still be relatively close to each other. And yeah i am all for realism but there is a limit, a real bike you just dont crash that often because of all the extra feedback and controls so dont compare gpbikes to real life. As long as i need to steer the bike with one thumbstick that maybe moves 2cm, have brakes witout feedback and no sense of grip except for visual clues or 1:1 physics, let it just be a game and keep some unrealistic elements in just for the sake of competitivity. Everyone crashes and 95% will do it at least once in a race, those people will stop racing after a few races of solitary driving and that is not what we want. Yeah i will give the new system a shot, wont have much of a choice i guess anyway, but there is simply no chance i am wrong about this unless everyone suddenly knows how to drive and stopped crashing.

As for Stout, yes i will argue it is a disadvantage if you end up facing a barrier after reset because it didnt have anything to do with how hard you crashed or how much risk you took. Facing the barrier is simply being extra unlucky after making a mistake or being hit by someone else, there is no skill involved in having a good resetting position = completely random = frustrating. Lets see how you wiĺl enjoy it being knocked off in the first corner, no chance of victory and the guy responsible leading you by 10 sec just because he had an easier reset. And this is not an uncommon scenario as you know but usually happens at least to someone during the first lap.

Yes of course there has to be limitations to realism due to the lack of physical feedback from a virtual bike, but that has nothing to do with bike resets after crashing in GPB.

As far as the new beta 9 reset is concerned, we obviously have a differing opinion and that's okay, this is what forums are all about. I personally love the new beta 9 bike reset after a crash..... The only thing I want to see done better is when the bike runs off on it's own. I still think Piboso could create a check routine to check if the bike is upright without the rider onboard and if so then to maybe fully apply the front brake after 3 secs to make it stop and fall over? I think that would be a pretty good solution for that problem?

Hawk.

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

[RaDiCaL]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

absolutely agree with you !

[JamoZ]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

The one thing that didn`t become more realistic are the grip levels. Opening up a motogp bike under quite an angle and without traction control in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear should almost always result in a highsider or at least the rear wheel stepping out quite violently. Right now i can just floor it in 1st gear coming out of a hairpin and the bike just has perfect grip without TC.

Now i understand why you think pCARS is a sim...

[JamoZ]

Jamoz, could not agree more, my thoughts exactly

With all due respect JamoZ, anyone organising a race event doesn't want the type of riders taking part who rage quit or quit just because they feel they have no chance of winning the race; we all know the type of person I'm talking about...

As for fun..... THIS IS FUN JamoZ!  Embrace it man!
But maybe your talking about the sort of fun that resides in the online FPS games were you can run around without fear of getting shot because you know you can respawn straight away and continue unimpeded? They would be much more fun if one shot and you were dead and out of the game, but they pander to the mass market of Gameboys who think respawn even after your shot is better fun... Mmm, I'd hate to see that sort of attitude come to simulation related events.

Server hosts and event organisers hold most of the power, if they'd actively help stamp out the gameboy attitudes then online events would be so much better.   

Just give the new respawn time mate, it'll grow on you! 

Hawk

It think what jamoz meant was aside from people that quit before the finish in casual events, crashing your bike in a race (could be someone elses fault) and completely losing sight of anyone for the next twenty laps is just no fun. If i lose 10 sec i know there is a chance to make up for it with good driving, but if i lose 30 sec because of an unlucky reset all competitiveness is gone and anything to race for is lost. Yes i will still finish the race but in my mind i already quit since a 30sec gap you will realistically not close within the same race. The variable time it will take for people to get back on track after a crash will completely spread out the field and it will basically be a single player experience. People that crash together always were able to continue the battle because of similar resets, same holds for peope that crashed the same amount of time, in previous betas they would still be relatively close to each other. And yeah i am all for realism but there is a limit, a real bike you just dont crash that often because of all the extra feedback and controls so dont compare gpbikes to real life. As long as i need to steer the bike with one thumbstick that maybe moves 2cm, have brakes witout feedback and no sense of grip except for visual clues or 1:1 physics, let it just be a game and keep some unrealistic elements in just for the sake of competitivity. Everyone crashes and 95% will do it at least once in a race, those people will stop racing after a few races of solitary driving and that is not what we want. Yeah i will give the new system a shot, wont have much of a choice i guess anyway, but there is simply no chance i am wrong about this unless everyone suddenly knows how to drive and stopped crashing.

As for Stout, yes i will argue it is a disadvantage if you end up facing a barrier after reset because it didnt have anything to do with how hard you crashed or how much risk you took. Facing the barrier is simply being extra unlucky after making a mistake or being hit by someone else, there is no skill involved in having a good resetting position = completely random = frustrating. Lets see how you wiĺl enjoy it being knocked off in the first corner, no chance of victory and the guy responsible leading you by 10 sec just because he had an easier reset. And this is not an uncommon scenario as you know but usually happens at least to someone during the first lap.

Yes of course there has to be limitations to realism due to the lack of physical feedback from a virtual bike, but that has nothing to do with bike resets after crashing in GPB.

As far as the new beta 9 reset is concerned, we obviously have a differing opinion and that's okay, this is what forums are all about. I personally love the new beta 9 bike reset after a crash..... The only thing I want to see done better is when the bike runs off on it's own. I still think Piboso could create a check routine to check if the bike is upright without the rider onboard and if so then to maybe fully apply the front brake after 3 secs to make it stop and fall over? I think that would be a pretty good solution for that problem?

Hawk.

If we are going all for 100% realism you should actually uninstall GP bikes after a crash, transfer 2500 dollars for repairs to piboso and wait 2 weeks until your virtual bike is "fixed"

[Vini]

Are you talking about the Mura or Manu's MotoGP bikes, Jamoz?

[JamoZ]

Are you talking about the Mura or Manu's MotoGP bikes, Jamoz?

The Murusama Vin. I never test a new beta with modded bikes

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

The one thing that didn`t become more realistic are the grip levels. Opening up a motogp bike under quite an angle and without traction control in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear should almost always result in a highsider or at least the rear wheel stepping out quite violently. Right now i can just floor it in 1st gear coming out of a hairpin and the bike just has perfect grip without TC.

Now i understand why you think pCARS is a sim...

A 31 year old man should have better things to do with his life than bitch about videogames. Furthermore, he should be smart enough to know the difference between a Motogp bike and a videogame bike mod (which wasn't made by the same folks who engineered the Moto GP bike).

Seeing as how you seem not to meet the requirements of either of the aforementioned (and the fact that you play GP Bikes in 3rd person), I understand why you think the grip levels are less realistic, and why you think pCARS isn't a sim.

Do you know how suspension affects grip levels? I don't think you do. Look it up. GP Bikes Beta 9 has a much improved suspension model. What do you think will happen to the grip levels of bikes which were created for beta 8, when played on beta 9? Think about that...

Jamoz, I don't think I need to say anything more about that, so I won't go about causing the redundancy. I won't read your next response either FYI .


Edit: You say you're talking about the Murasama. In which case, everything I've said still stands. However, you should now also factor in the fact that the Piboso says he's changed the engine map (for the better).

[JamoZ]

A 31 year old man should have better things to do with his life than bitch about videogames. Furthermore, he should be smart enough to know the difference between a Motogp bike and a videogame bike mod (which wasn't made by the same folks who engineered the Moto GP bike).

Seeing as how you seem not to meet the requirements of either of the aforementioned (and the fact that you play GP Bikes in 3rd person), I understand why you think the grip levels are less realistic, and why you think pCARS isn't a sim.

Do you know how suspension affects grip levels? I don't think you do. Look it up. GP Bikes Beta 9 has a much improved suspension model. What do you think will happen to the grip levels of bikes which were created for beta 8, when played on beta 9? Think about that...

Jamoz, I don't think I need to say anything more about that, so I won't go about causing the redundancy. I won't read your next response either FYI .

Edit: You say you're talking about the Murasama. In which case, everything I've said still stands. However, you should now also factor in the fact that the Piboso says he's changed the engine map (for the better).

The fact you need to insult on a personal level tells alot about your personality.

The fact this video exists tells me you`re making false statements, just like the ones stating pCARS is a sim...

http://www.youtube.com/v/uDVvrMNXE_Y

Oh, and you`re totally reading this....stop lying 

[HornetMaX]

When a reset always keeps you facing in the direction of the track, the luck factor becomes smaller and crashes would cost everyone roughly the same amount of time.

But when you stop 200m from the track, how do you define "facing the direction of the track" ? Maybe it could be something like: if you stop on track, spawn in the direction of the track. But if you spawn off-track, spawn in the direction orthogonal to the track (i.e. pointing at the track).

Personally I'm not bothered by the current "respawn as you stop" method: it's just like in real life. If your bikes stops facing the barrier, then you have to deal with it. Bad luck indeed, but that's life. You can't remove all the luck factor and eve if you can, well you shouldn't.

Take for example a car sim: when you crash, do you want the direction of your car to be altered by the sim just to make it easier to go back on track ? I guess we all agree the answer is a big fat no, so I don't see why it would be any different for a bike sim.

[PiBoSo]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

The one thing that didn`t become more realistic are the grip levels. Opening up a motogp bike under quite an angle and without traction control in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear should almost always result in a highsider or at least the rear wheel stepping out quite violently. Right now i can just floor it in 1st gear coming out of a hairpin and the bike just has perfect grip without TC.

Now i understand why you think pCARS is a sim...

One more time: the tyre simulation and the tyre physics data HAVEN'T been changed.
The "throttle mapping", that due to a bug wasn't working at all, has been fixed.
This is what "throttle mapping" is: http://www.sportrider.com/2005-honda-rc211v-motogp-great-expectations
"In an effort to control the ever-increasing power of the RC211V, HRC introduced the Honda Intelligent Throttle Control System, a semimechanical/electronic forerunner to the now-common fly-by-wire throttle systems on MotoGP bikes. The twist-grip throttle cables rotated a throttle linkage shaft attached to a tiny planetary gear setup controlled by an ECU-actuated servo motor. The system would modify the amount of throttle-valve movement according to the gear selected, preventing excessive power in the lower gears. However, it was widely rumored that many of the Honda riders disliked the system, complaining that it affected the engine power too much."

The simulation is uncanny, since you complain exactly like the real riders 

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

I think the new respawning system is ideal. I would however, like to see a change about how it has to behave when the bike stalls. There's no need to have to hold the reset button for three seconds and risk spawning in the pits. Perhaps include an ignition and starter feature for some bikes. Bikes like the Murasama should do with out that, but it could benefit other bikes, no?

[doubledragoncc]

HI Piboso.

The guys raced on Victoria with the CBR Cup last night and had big core issues. Did you change anything on Victoria for beta9 as I had the old track in the track folder for the server or does GPB read Victoria from the pkz file which was the beta9 version?

Just want to know if I screwed up or it is a problem with the mod bike on Victoria?

DD

[JamoZ]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

The one thing that didn`t become more realistic are the grip levels. Opening up a motogp bike under quite an angle and without traction control in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear should almost always result in a highsider or at least the rear wheel stepping out quite violently. Right now i can just floor it in 1st gear coming out of a hairpin and the bike just has perfect grip without TC.

Now i understand why you think pCARS is a sim...

One more time: the tyre simulation and the tyre physics data HAVEN'T been changed.
The "throttle mapping", that due to a bug wasn't working at all, has been fixed.
This is what "throttle mapping" is: http://www.sportrider.com/2005-honda-rc211v-motogp-great-expectations
"In an effort to control the ever-increasing power of the RC211V, HRC introduced the Honda Intelligent Throttle Control System, a semimechanical/electronic forerunner to the now-common fly-by-wire throttle systems on MotoGP bikes. The twist-grip throttle cables rotated a throttle linkage shaft attached to a tiny planetary gear setup controlled by an ECU-actuated servo motor. The system would modify the amount of throttle-valve movement according to the gear selected, preventing excessive power in the lower gears. However, it was widely rumored that many of the Honda riders disliked the system, complaining that it affected the engine power too much."

The simulation is actually perfect, since you complain exactly like the real riders 

I knew the tire didn`t change, i thought you had to tweak them to provide a more realistic way of grip.
So basically this throttle mapping acts like some sort of TC?

Why did the bikes sometime highside that violently then back in those days? I never thought a bike like that would grip the rear without TC like it does currently ingame.
It almost feels tame in a way...

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

One more time: the tyre simulation and the tyre physics data HAVEN'T been changed.
The "throttle mapping", that due to a bug wasn't working at all, has been fixed.
This is what "throttle mapping" is: http://www.sportrider.com/2005-honda-rc211v-motogp-great-expectations
"In an effort to control the ever-increasing power of the RC211V, HRC introduced the Honda Intelligent Throttle Control System, a semimechanical/electronic forerunner to the now-common fly-by-wire throttle systems on MotoGP bikes. The twist-grip throttle cables rotated a throttle linkage shaft attached to a tiny planetary gear setup controlled by an ECU-actuated servo motor. The system would modify the amount of throttle-valve movement according to the gear selected, preventing excessive power in the lower gears. However, it was widely rumored that many of the Honda riders disliked the system, complaining that it affected the engine power too much."

The simulation is actually perfect, since you complain exactly like the real riders 

Yep. You've done a great job with beta 9. Don't listen to the crybaby nutters.