GP Bikes beta9

[JamoZ]

One more time: the tyre simulation and the tyre physics data HAVEN'T been changed.
The "throttle mapping", that due to a bug wasn't working at all, has been fixed.
This is what "throttle mapping" is: http://www.sportrider.com/2005-honda-rc211v-motogp-great-expectations
"In an effort to control the ever-increasing power of the RC211V, HRC introduced the Honda Intelligent Throttle Control System, a semimechanical/electronic forerunner to the now-common fly-by-wire throttle systems on MotoGP bikes. The twist-grip throttle cables rotated a throttle linkage shaft attached to a tiny planetary gear setup controlled by an ECU-actuated servo motor. The system would modify the amount of throttle-valve movement according to the gear selected, preventing excessive power in the lower gears. However, it was widely rumored that many of the Honda riders disliked the system, complaining that it affected the engine power too much."

The simulation is actually perfect, since you complain exactly like the real riders 

Yep. You've done a great job with beta 9. Don't listen to the crybaby nutters.

Again a passive aggressive insult. Keep it up.
Noone said this beta wasn`t good...

[PiBoSo]

Very very nice. Everything is much improved. Bikes are more stable, and grip levels are much more realistic as well.

The one thing that didn`t become more realistic are the grip levels. Opening up a motogp bike under quite an angle and without traction control in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear should almost always result in a highsider or at least the rear wheel stepping out quite violently. Right now i can just floor it in 1st gear coming out of a hairpin and the bike just has perfect grip without TC.

Now i understand why you think pCARS is a sim...

One more time: the tyre simulation and the tyre physics data HAVEN'T been changed.
The "throttle mapping", that due to a bug wasn't working at all, has been fixed.
This is what "throttle mapping" is: http://www.sportrider.com/2005-honda-rc211v-motogp-great-expectations
"In an effort to control the ever-increasing power of the RC211V, HRC introduced the Honda Intelligent Throttle Control System, a semimechanical/electronic forerunner to the now-common fly-by-wire throttle systems on MotoGP bikes. The twist-grip throttle cables rotated a throttle linkage shaft attached to a tiny planetary gear setup controlled by an ECU-actuated servo motor. The system would modify the amount of throttle-valve movement according to the gear selected, preventing excessive power in the lower gears. However, it was widely rumored that many of the Honda riders disliked the system, complaining that it affected the engine power too much."

The simulation is uncanny, since you complain exactly like the real riders 

If you really want to complain about realism of the Murasama ( except for the obvious physics data that can always fine-tuned more ) then maybe you could argue that the 2003 RC211V didn't have traction control or anti-wheeling.
However, this bike is meant as a showcase of what the physics can do, as a reference for modders.

[JamoZ]

Well, to be honest i think the bike is near perfect now as it's easier to handle and that will allow for better racing.

It just didn't compare to what i thought those beasts would have handled back then 

But maybe that's the reason i'm not a 9 times world champion

[doubledragoncc]

Loopateli just posted about the cores on Victoria last night maybe this will help explain it better:

"yesterday I saw 2 types of cores:

1st and most common one. Dynamic surface track. every time the track had to much rubber, lap times started to lag and everyone started to have core exe. Then I restart the server and it went good for another 20-30mins (we where more than 10 riders in the server)

2nd and a new type of core (for me). With this new re spawn system sometimes when I crash and the bike stops I try to respawm and boommmm core exe."

beta9 is better, but we still get issues and it would seem another snuck in with the respawn system.

DD

[Steven]

I'd only fix the engine stall problem (engine stall without falling = must go to pits): that's annoying *and* unrealistic.

Maybe I really don't understand the problem, but when holding reset you only go to the pits when the new lines haven't been done. On Victoria (as the only example at the moment) you will spawn on the side of the track with the engine running and mostly like it's been before I think.

If the checklines mean bikes are respawned onto the track surface then why would we want to update the tracks with this? Min/Max lines also are useless for respawn as we know from previous betas. 

I haven't tried online yet but if you had to wait for others to pass before you can use the "hard reset", than doesn't this make perfect sense, since you could already spawn where you crashed and make it back to the track on your own?

Also remember when you started playing GPB and how long it took to make one lap without crashing (at least it took some time for me). If somebody starts playing GPB and spends more time off track trying to get back this might be quite frustrating for most people. Maybe also more rewarding when finally making a lap without crashing but since the demo bike didn't become easier to ride since the time I started with GPB I'm not sure I would spend so much time with it.

I don't think min/max lines have been completely useless. Without them you spawn at the centerline and with them you spawn at the side of the track.

[Stout Johnson]

@Piboso: Congratulations on addressing the "throttle mapping". But notwithstanding, grip-wise there definitely is tuning to do. But you already acknowledged that. At the moment it is more like digital grip/no grip. But in real life, there is constant wheel slippage and therefore some sort of wheel "sliding" when riding a highpowered motorcycle, even if that tyre slippage is not always noticeable to the spectator. Many do think that only under power sliding there is actual wheel slippage, but it is almost always there. So I think this should be resembled better. As well as more realistic tyre temp curves. Because at the moment I think if there is slippage at the moment, the tyres overheat too much (which causes its own problems).   

Some other short comments/questions.
1. concerning throttle mapping: My understanding is that this was only used for certain time by Honda for the RC211V. But in GPB the "throttle mapping" you just introduced can be turned off by modders if we for example want to make modern MotoGP mod, correct?
2. concerning throttle mapping: from my understanding the throttle mapping was used to prevent "excessive" power outage at lower rpm's which would have mostly caused high-siders out of slower corners; but it still did allow for massive power slides - this should be resembled!
https://www.youtube.com/v/ytq9o8xPEIY
3. I/we do acknowledge you have a very comprehensive simulation of motorcycle physics; but that does not mean that all parameters are set realistically. Please do not take our feedback/suggestions as bad critic, we try to help make your sim better. Many of us actually do have much experience with bikes, some even bike racing. Much more than you have, so please use this feedback, it is very helpful.
4. As you probably know, realistic tyre simulation is the most important aspect of a motorcycle simulator, as the tyre is the linkage between the bike and the tarmac. But it is also probably the hardest thing to simulate, because there just is not much data there. And the tyre simulation of a car sim just is not applicable to motorcycle physics in all aspects. So, you probably are doing pioneer work right there in trying to evolve a realistic motorcycle tyre sim. This could be something you could get credit for.
--> But please include some of us to help you develop such a tyre model... you cannot expect yourself to be an expert in programming and motorcycle racing irl (choose some among this forum, there are many good people available here that actually do have racing experience and can give you good, well-spoken feedback). Otherwise it is just trial and error for you.
5. in the article you linked above there is also some nice info on "ECU-controlled solenoid valves bled air past the throttle plates when the system detected rear-wheel lockup". This sounds very interesting and could help to simulate manageable trail-braking. Are you planning to introduce this as well?
6. The reason realistic wheel slippage is so important - be it under throttle or under braking - is, that it just helps to take certain types of corners much faster. That is why it is being used in racing. It is not because it looks cool to power slide around a corner or to enter a turn sliding in over the rear wheel, it is being done because it just helps to be faster. And that is why you need that in GPB (and MXB) too if your sims want to qualify as being true sims.   

Regards, Stout

[yan24]

@Piboso: Congratulations on addressing the "throttle mapping". But notwithstanding, grip-wise there definitely is tuning to do. But you already acknowledged that. At the moment it is more like digital grip/no grip. But in real life, there is constant wheel slippage and therefore some sort of wheel "sliding" when riding a highpowered motorcycle, even if that tyre slippage is not always noticeable to the spectator. Many do think that only under power sliding there is actual wheel slippage, but it is almost always there. So I think this should be resembled better. As well as more realistic tyre temp curves. Because at the moment I think if there is slippage at the moment, the tyres overheat too much (which causes its own problems).   

Some other short comments/questions.
1. concerning throttle mapping: My understanding is that this was only used for certain time by Honda for the RC211V. But in GPB the "throttle mapping" you just introduced can be turned off by modders if we for example want to make modern MotoGP mod, correct?
2. concerning throttle mapping: from my understanding the throttle mapping was used to prevent "excessive" power outage at lower rpm's which would have mostly caused high-siders out of slower corners; but it still did allow for massive power slides - this should be resembled!
https://www.youtube.com/v/ytq9o8xPEIY
3. I/we do acknowledge you have a very comprehensive simulation of motorcycle physics; but that does not mean that all parameters are set realistically. Please do not take our feedback/suggestions as bad critic, we try to help make your sim better. Many of us actually do have much experience with bikes, some even bike racing. Much more than you have, so please use this feedback, it is very helpful.
4. As you probably know, realistic tyre simulation is the most important aspect of a motorcycle simulator, as the tyre is the linkage between the bike and the tarmac. But it is also probably the hardest thing to simulate, because there just is not much data there. And the tyre simulation of a car sim just is not applicable to motorcycle physics in all aspects. So, you probably are doing pioneer work right there in trying to evolve a realistic motorcycle tyre sim. This could be something you could get credit for.
--> But please include some of us to help you develop such a tyre model... you cannot expect yourself to be an expert in programming and motorcycle racing irl (choose some among this forum, there are many good people available here that actually do have racing experience and can give you good, well-spoken feedback). Otherwise it is just trial and error for you.
5. in the article you linked above there is also some nice info on "ECU-controlled solenoid valves bled air past the throttle plates when the system detected rear-wheel lockup". This sounds very interesting and could help to simulate manageable trail-braking. Are you planning to introduce this as well?
6. The reason realistic wheel slippage is so important - be it under throttle or under braking - is, that it just helps to take certain types of corners much faster. That is why it is being used in racing. It is not because it looks cool to power slide around a corner or to enter a turn sliding in over the rear wheel, it is being done because it just helps to be faster. And that is why you need that in GPB (and MXB) too if your sims want to qualify as being true sims.   

Regards, Stout

+1

[HornetMaX]

To be honest, it feels "too grippy" even to me, even accounting for the now working throttle map (and with no TC).

Random thought: could it be that the grip levels were OK with the buggy rear suspension of previous betas, but now that the suspension works as it should they are too high ? (ultra-long shot, I know).

I'd only fix the engine stall problem (engine stall without falling = must go to pits): that's annoying *and* unrealistic.

Maybe I really don't understand the problem, but when holding reset you only go to the pits when the new lines haven't been done. On Victoria (as the only example at the moment) you will spawn on the side of the track with the engine running and mostly like it's been before I think.

Go on the track (Victoria) and let the engine stall *without* falling (i.e. you're still on the bike, but the engine is off). Pressing the reset key/button does nothing, you don't respawn.

[HornetMaX]

5. in the article you linked above there is also some nice info on "ECU-controlled solenoid valves bled air past the throttle plates when the system detected rear-wheel lockup". This sounds very interesting and could help to simulate manageable trail-braking. Are you planning to introduce this as well?

ABS on engine brake

[Steven]

I'd only fix the engine stall problem (engine stall without falling = must go to pits): that's annoying *and* unrealistic.

Maybe I really don't understand the problem, but when holding reset you only go to the pits when the new lines haven't been done. On Victoria (as the only example at the moment) you will spawn on the side of the track with the engine running and mostly like it's been before I think.

Go on the track (Victoria) and let the engine stall *without* falling (i.e. you're still on the bike, but the engine is off). Pressing the reset key/button does nothing, you don't respawn.

PiBoSo didn't mention specifically but you can now hold the reset key for some time for a second reset option. I think that's the point of misunderstanding?

[HornetMaX]

PiBoSo didn't mention specifically but you can now hold the reset key for some time for a second reset option. I think that's the point of misunderstanding?

Ah, missed that, thx. But if I'm off-track with engine stalled and I press-and-hold, where do I respawn ? Where I am or somewhere else ?

[BOBR6 84]

Grip levels feel ok to me.. Had plenty of slides, drifts and sudden step out's etc all seems good.. Throttle map has given us alot more control.. Noticed that on turn 2 victoria straight away! Holding constant throttle used to send the bike wide but now it feels good!

Braking... Although it seems great how the bike behaves on the brakes now, it doesn't translate to what im doing with the trigger... Way too forgiving! Also if i brake with some lean angle the bike should want to sit up and stop me from turning.

[r1rossi]

Hi guys. i still have had no luck with this and have tried LOTS of things...... Any help would be great....

I did a complete fresh install of GPbikes

Deleted gpbikes folder and piboso info...

When riding ANY bike on ANY track when i crash the game core.exe every time.

Ive tried a fresh install with no aftermarket bikes and still does it.

[Steven]

PiBoSo didn't mention specifically but you can now hold the reset key for some time for a second reset option. I think that's the point of misunderstanding?

Ah, missed that, thx. But if I'm off-track with engine stalled and I press-and-hold, where do I respawn ? Where I am or somewhere else ?

At Victoria you spawn on the side of the track. On the other tracks you spawn in the pits. "checkleft.tl" and "checkright.tl" are needed for each track to spawn on the side.
Like you said for the stalled engine it would be good to have any kind of starter but at least you still have the option to reset.

[HornetMaX]

PiBoSo didn't mention specifically but you can now hold the reset key for some time for a second reset option. I think that's the point of misunderstanding?

Ah, missed that, thx. But if I'm off-track with engine stalled and I press-and-hold, where do I respawn ? Where I am or somewhere else ?

At Victoria you spawn on the side of the track. On the other tracks you spawn in the pits. "checkleft.tl" and "checkright.tl" are needed for each track to spawn on the side.
Like you said for the stalled engine it would be good to have any kind of starter but at least you still have the option to reset.

So it's not good enough for me: in a race if I stall the engine I don't want to disappear from where the bike stopped and reappear on the side of the track (as that can be very distracting for the incoming riders).

[but it's good enough for offline ]