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Track Rotation - the right way?

Started by dibu, January 11, 2014, 10:03:28 AM

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RBp

I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain

dibu

I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open  ;)

Stout Johnson

Quote from: dibu on January 12, 2014, 08:57:21 AM
I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open  ;)

good way to go I think... thnx dibu!
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

Hawk

Quote from: RBp on January 11, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain

Releasing in beta is a good thing, simply because it helps the modding community sort out any problems, and also helps to improve the product by user feedback.

It also helps users to learn how to install/implement bikes/tracks and paints as well as learning a lot of other useful information in the process.

Anything and everything is easy once you've learned know how to do it. ;D

iVolution

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 12, 2014, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: RBp on January 11, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain

It also helps users to learn how to install/implement bikes/tracks and paints as well as learning a lot of other useful information in the process.

Anything and everything is easy once you've learned know how to do it. ;D

Exactly this. New versions of everything are constantly uploaded and I think people just need some time getting used to this as it is new and unlike the former situation where a new beta had to be downloaden once a few months.

Have seen so many people trying to connect but apparently having the wrong versions, as they now know where to look and how to install it, things will get less frustrating for some i guess

iVolution

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.

Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...

Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.

I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.

nuovaic

Quote from: dibu on January 12, 2014, 08:57:21 AM
I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open  ;)

Big thumbs up for 1000 and 500 hotlap back and with ssp at Cold Turkey it has been real fun today.
Thank you Dibu.

nuovaic

Quote from: iVolution on January 12, 2014, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.

Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...

Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.

I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.

Exactly my thinking Ivo, indeed a Gp bikes track that is not similar to real life is not really what this sim is all about. Or am I missing something? Any and and all tracks that are doctored to be smoother than reality  have way too much of an arcadey feel to me. All real tracks deteriorate over time and bumps become part of reality. However, the 990 in particular has real difficulty in some circumstances that make consistency on bumpy tracks very difficult. The new R6 highlights this well, because it handles the trickier tracks so much better.  I would like to see tracks with real life fluctuations, but also bikes with the suspension and adjustability capable of handling them. This, to me, is where  this sim still needs a little work.

Hawk

Quote from: nuovaic on January 12, 2014, 11:59:33 PM
Quote from: iVolution on January 12, 2014, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.

Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...

Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.

I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.

Exactly my thinking Ivo, indeed a Gp bikes track that is not similar to real life is not really what this sim is all about. Or am I missing something? Any and and all tracks that are doctored to be smoother than reality  have way too much of an arcadey feel to me. All real tracks deteriorate over time and bumps become part of reality. However, the 990 in particular has real difficulty in some circumstances that make consistency on bumpy tracks very difficult. The new R6 highlights this well, because it handles the trickier tracks so much better.  I would like to see tracks with real life fluctuations, but also bikes with the suspension and adjustability capable of handling them. This, to me, is where  this sim still needs a little work.

I agree to a certain extent to what you guys are saying about bumps on a track, but I don't know if it is the bike physics that cannot handle it, as has been indicated, or whether it is just poor modelling on the track authors part? And if we are talking about wanting realism because it's a sim, all of which I would agree with, we can only get such track surface reality if we had access to laser scanned track data, and I'm afraid that will never happen simply due to the costs involved in obtaining that data. So we have to make do for now with estimated bumps and hollows in track surfaces, but until it has been established what is at fault, namely bike physics or track modelling, it is difficult to know how to solve this problem. Personally, the work on the R6 physics and resulting better performance on previously bumpy tracks indicates to me that it is more of a bike physics issue than a track issue, but then again it could be a combination of the two? What do you guys think?

JamoZ

To be honest, laser scanning might not be as expensive and far away for comsumers as most think. I`ve seen people laserscan their streets by simply using a xbox kinect taped to the hood of their car, and using some kind of software to create something usable out of it. I couldn`t find the exact link, but if you google "laserscanning kinect" you`ll see a couple of examples.

Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P

iVolution

Quote from: JamoZ on January 13, 2014, 12:23:30 AM
Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P
Pick me, pick me. I will sacrifice myself for the good of this community.  ;D

If adequately compensated, ill laserscan any track our planet has to offer  :D ;D

Hawk

January 13, 2014, 12:56:45 AM #41 Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 12:59:54 AM by Hawk_UK
Quote from: iVolution on January 13, 2014, 12:32:04 AM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 13, 2014, 12:23:30 AM
Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P
Pick me, pick me. I will sacrifice myself for the good of this community.  ;D

If adequately compensated, ill laserscan any track our planet has to offer  :D ;D

You've got my vote, iVolution! Lol ;D

Just a thought..... An alternative would be to use the SRTM/KLM height elevation data that can be acquired from this site: http://opentopo.sdsc.edu/gridsphere/gridsphere?cid=geonlidarframeportlet&gs_action=raster&opentopoID=OTSRTM.042013.4326.1 to create new tracks, or even to implement the data into current track models?

Edit: Depends on the resolution of that height data, I guess, yes?