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CAWS MOD Team - TRACK RELEASE - WIP Donington Park Circuit.

Started by Hawk, June 08, 2017, 01:35:37 PM

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Vini

September 15, 2017, 10:23:10 AM #60 Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:30:35 AM by vini97
nice track but the bikes are floating above the surface

also could you make the curbs a bit smaller? it's realistic that you cannot use them mid corner but IMO you should be able to use them out of the turn when the bike is upright without highsiding.

Hawk

Quote from: vini97 on September 15, 2017, 10:23:10 AM
nice track but the bikes are floating above the surface

also could you make the curbs a bit smaller? it's realistic that you cannot use them mid corner but IMO you should be able to use them out of the turn when the bike is upright without highsiding.

Your not alone on your observations there Vin.  ;)
I've also noticed the bikes are riding above the surface too(on most tracks in general), more so since the latest GPB beta 12b release.... There is nothing wrong with the track that would cause this to happen so I can only presume it is either a GPB beta issue or a bikeMOD beta 12 update issue? Maybe Piboso could shed some light on this matter.
I see wheels/tyres lifting off the ground in the replays too as they have done since beta 9 I seem to recall? This is a long time issue we've reported many times but seems to get ignored by Piboso in his updates since beta 9 for some reason? Again, maybe Piboso would be kind enough to shed some light on this matter? :)

The way the bikes handle kerbs is probably more down to bikeMOD suspension physics/GPB physics than anything else, so the catch 22 here is: Do we unrealistically smooth the kerbs down so current GPB physics can handle them with ease, or, do we leave them realistically modelled and wait for Piboso to sort out the damping characteristics of the suspension/tyre systems for the physics in GPB and/or bikemods?

Thanks for the feedback Vin, appreciated mate! ;) 8)




Vini

Quote from: Hawk on September 15, 2017, 02:18:08 PMThe way the bikes handle kerbs is probably more down to bikeMOD suspension physics/GPB physics than anything else, so the catch 22 here is: Do we unrealistically smooth the kerbs down so current GPB physics can handle them with ease, or, do we leave them realistically modelled and wait for Piboso to sort out the damping characteristics of the suspension/tyre systems for the physics in GPB and/or bikemods?
clearly the former (until piboso improves the simulation).

Vini

September 20, 2017, 01:09:43 AM #63 Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 06:43:47 PM by vini97
the COTA curbs are a good compromise IMO.


also, could you smooth out that bump in the last corner a bit?

Hawk

Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 01:09:43 AM
also, could you smooth out that bump in the last corner a bit?

Noted for the next update...... I presume your talking about the National Circuit layout entering the last chicane Vin?  :)

Thanks for your feedback Vin, appreciated. ;)


KG_03

Yesterday I had a funny issue. I have missed the last turn and hit the barriers at full speed. The game stopped and crashed. Not sure if its track of game code error, but the report said core.exe has crashed.

matty0l215

Depending on how fast your were going. It may be a game issue (a known one) you can get it to haopen on many tracks
For faster responses, please visit the discord server- HERE

KG_03


Vini

Quote from: Hawk on September 20, 2017, 08:24:29 AM
Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 01:09:43 AM
also, could you smooth out that bump in the last corner a bit?

Noted for the next update...... I presume your talking about the National Circuit layout entering the last chicane Vin?  :)
I think yes but to be clear, I am talking about the last corner in the GP layout (the hairpin).

And please take a look at the COTA curbs for comparison. The size is just right to produce realistic behaviour of the bikes.

Hawk

Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 06:46:31 PM
Quote from: Hawk on September 20, 2017, 08:24:29 AM
Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 01:09:43 AM
also, could you smooth out that bump in the last corner a bit?

Noted for the next update...... I presume your talking about the National Circuit layout entering the last chicane Vin?  :)
I think yes but to be clear, I am talking about the last corner in the GP layout (the hairpin).

And please take a look at the COTA curbs for comparison. The size is just right to produce realistic behaviour of the bikes.

Hmm... Not noticed any big bumps on the last corner of the GP track layout? I'll have to take a look..... I presume your talking about big bumps that are unridable?

The kerbs at Donington are true to scale; they won't be changed just to workaround GPBike physics issues. Could be the tyre model physics on the bikes that are causing issue when riding over realistically modelled kerbs. But we should not flatten the kerbs out just to work around physics issues. :)

Thanks for the feedback mate. ;)

Vini

September 20, 2017, 07:26:24 PM #70 Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 07:28:40 PM by vini97
unridable is subjective but relative to the rest of the track, it's a rather problematic bump.

well i understand your position and it makes sense in an ideal world but our situation is far from that so we have to find a compromise.
having a slight inaccurancy in the track that is basically invisible is a smaller trade off than having completely unrealistic gameplay (which will funnily make most people think you made a mistake modelling the curbs).

Hawk

Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 07:26:24 PM
unridable is subjective but relative to the rest of the track, it's a rather problematic bump.

well i understand your position and it makes sense in an ideal world but our situation is far from that so we have to find a compromise.
having a slight inaccurancy in the track that is basically invisible is a smaller trade off than having completely unrealistic gameplay (which will funnily make most people think you made a mistake modelling the curbs).

So long as the kerbs are accurate then quite frankly people can come to whatever conclusion they like.... My conscience will be perfectly clear. Lol  ;D

But I would disagree with you that track authors need to come to a compromise from reality.... What is actually needed is for the bike-physics to be working properly and not for track creators to alter real world data as a workaround for poor physics settings - This is a simulator after all, yes?  :)

Has it occurred to you that the kerb issues are either a core physics fault or a bikemod tyre/suspension physics model fault? I suggest you ask Piboso and/or the bike creators to sort out the physics to allow the bikes to react realistically while traveling over the kerbs rather than asking for major changes in track kerb models as a workaround.  :)

If you don't push for what is needed then you won't don't get it.  ;) 8)

Always open for any changes that make the track more realistic.....

Thanks Vin.  ;) 8)

PS: I know we at CAWS are working on tyre physics modelling for beta12b bikes and testing on this issue as are other bikemod creators I presume.  ;)

Vini

Quote from: Hawk on September 20, 2017, 08:48:54 PMHas it occurred to you that the kerb issues are either a core physics fault or a bikemod tyre/suspension physics model fault? I suggest you ask Piboso and/or the bike creators to sort out the physics to allow the bikes to react realistically while traveling over the kerbs rather than asking for major changes in track kerb models as a workaround.  :)
It has not only occurred to me, it is clearly the truth and there is already a thread on that topic somewhere.
The point is, until PiBoSo fixes those issues (which could take quite a while), you could at least offer a temporary solution.

Hawk

Quote from: vini97 on September 20, 2017, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: Hawk on September 20, 2017, 08:48:54 PMHas it occurred to you that the kerb issues are either a core physics fault or a bikemod tyre/suspension physics model fault? I suggest you ask Piboso and/or the bike creators to sort out the physics to allow the bikes to react realistically while traveling over the kerbs rather than asking for major changes in track kerb models as a workaround.  :)
It has not only occurred to me, it is clearly the truth and there is already a thread on that topic somewhere.
The point is, until PiBoSo fixes those issues (which could take quite a while), you could at least offer a temporary solution.

Your approaching this wrongly Vin.... Why should track modders have to put in a lot of extra work wasting their time for what will only be a temporary fix when the real and proper solution from either Piboso or the bike-modders could come at any time soon? Your just being unreasonable in asking track modders to do this.... Don't you realise how much work would be involved to do it correctly?
So just be patient Vin.... I'm sure all will be sorted in due process either by the bike-modders or Piboso whichever is at the root cause of this issue.
As I said before, we at CAWS are working on it by testing tyre physics models and I'm sure other mod-teams are too... We'll get it sorted one way or another; the other being Piboso if it turns out to be a defect in the core GPB physics.  ;) 8)

It would help if Piboso would at least acknowledge the problem and make a comment or suggestion about possible solutions for the issue. For all we know Piboso might know for sure that it is a core GPB inadequacy in the physics that needs his attention; at least if he's say something about it then it would save us a lot of wasted time trying to work it out with the tyre physics model and all the testing and work involved in doing that.  :)

Just so you know that I'm not being awkward about this.... I've already put some temp rideable kerbs into the Brno track we are updating; I'll leave those temp kerbs in until we've got this issue sorted. ;)

Wimp #97

First of all let me say that this is one of the best tracks in gpbikes, that being said I find the grip levels on the kerb very low(as stated before). Its not even bumpy just very slick. Is it an actual bug or are they just named wrong(Which I doubt but you never know :D) TRKGRAS instead of TRKKERB?
Wimp #97

Champion Moto2 International Cup 2018