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Suspension rates

Started by Syd, October 04, 2017, 06:50:11 pm

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Syd

To me, altering spring rates in the garage from softest to hardest seems to make little difference. Also with damping and preload. I am guessing that this is true to life, racers can probably feel the difference while on the bike, or at least feel the difference in the effect. But I can't in GPB. I always get the impression that there is only a small difference in each step and if the steps between spring rates and damping rates were increased at least 3 fold, it would be more noticeable and therefore more useful to us remote riders.

I may be alone in this, don't know, but not found anything similar in the forum.
Or am I missing something?

KG_03

Have the same feeling. Not sure if the suspension effect depend on the each bike and it depends on how the bike is prepared by modders or its overall game physics. Sam thing with fork rake, trail and swingarm. Anyway I still miss some suspension guide as I am still not sure if higher number gives more or less compression.

janaucarre

Hi,
I change usually the suspension settings to prevent the fork going limit switch. For it i use MAXHUD to see the fork travel during hard braking and bumps. If the fork goes to the limit it can cause front lose in curve and longer braking distance.

davidboda46

October 05, 2017, 10:52:16 pm #3 Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 11:02:38 pm by davidboda46
Well I'm an idiot when it comes to setup. Still don't know if more makes suspension harder or softer or if it's vice versa. I would need "an idiots guide to setup". I used to notice some change in behavior on older GPB versions with some mod bikes but nowadays I don't "feel" that much of a differens. I usually just fiddle with EB-settings, and very rarely rake and swing arm, on certain tracks and that's about it.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

janaucarre

It must be noted that every changes on the suspension settings affect the tyres and their pressure must be adapted

davidboda46

I have no idea about air pressure either. I always just go with default, which is probably not the best, but as I have no clue of what the "correct" pressure is for each bike/situation, I'm pretty much screwed. Maybe a "tire pressure guide" by the creators should be included as a txt-file in the bike folder of each mod bike? 

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

Napalm Nick

October 05, 2017, 11:30:10 pm #6 Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 11:34:39 pm by Napalm Nick
If you delve into the tyre files (pretend you are reading your bikes maintenance manual, like you would in IRL right?) you can find out the optimal pressures and temperatures. Take these and do some clean laps, and tweak to get both as close to 'optimal' as possible.

Most tyres have a working temperature range, for example, 5 degrees either side of 70oC. this will also be affected by track and air temperature of the track you are riding. You must check that at every track you join.  We did some lengthy testing of how the tyres build heat (and lose it) corresponding to track temperatures. It was quite an eye-opener and great to see this simulation works well. Little details many might not even think of but PiB already has.

For example, the 1992 500cc 2 stroke Michelin tyre (Hard front)
Quotecompound0
{
   name = Hard
   OptTemperature = 80.000000


QuoteOptimalPressure = 210.000000


Yep its not for everyones tastes looking in the files but I think its fun to note the details to strive for the best setup.

As for the other settings I would say it is very hard to feel differences until you can lap consistently within a second each lap. Then make a setting change and go see how it feels. Even then the fastest riders just say they never touch those "placebo settings" lol   ;D

Personally I usually aim for Drivetrain, and as little understeer as possible and good braking control with ride heights and preloads. Then again I'm still 'crap' but maybe not 'really crap'?  :D

Quote from: davidboda46 on October 05, 2017, 11:05:25 pm
Maybe a "tire pressure guide" by the creators should be included as a txt-file in the bike folder of each mod bike? 



All ready done that with these http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=5271.0
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

Syd

That's interesting info, thanks!
My original question begs another question-
Can a modder add a much more varied set of springs and damping rates to the garage or is that set by Pibsy?

h106frp

Yes, all the suspension rates can be part of a mod but may use the stock values from the Mura which may be too 'stiff' for some applications especially as it needs matching to the leverage ratio of the rear suspension geometry.

davidboda46

Nick - Thanks for the info. :)

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

KG_03

I have been testing some set ups and it seems like suspension setup has very little effect.
As for now what I have noticed is:
bump damping - lower number gives more damping
rebound damping - higher number gives more damping
springs stiffness - no effect at all or almost invisible ?

Honestly I can't notice any bigger difference between suspension setups. I set the bike up with suspension telemetry and no matter how stiff I set the suspension almost every time the diagram shows an exclamation mark that the suspension compresses too much... is it just my feeling ?

Syd

I'm glad someone else thinks the same as me! I was beginning to think I was nearly alone in thinking this. Thanks for testing KG13.

KG_03

I'm a suspension/bike setup junkie if I can call it this way. Still I need to learn a lot about it  but I am also happy that there is more ppl who think the same way as I do.

KG_03

Ok, I have done some more testing and I have one big issue. Rebound damping just does not exist. The lighter the bike the more it jumps, and nothing blocks the rebounding suspension.
For me it looks like weight / rebound issue that is mainly exposed when playing on the pad that allows fast direction changes and gives the element of instability.

I have done these tests:
GP500 bike with highest number of rebound and when pressed the front brake the front goes back fast to its initial position
GP Rookies bike - here the problem was the biggest as the light bike jumps like crazy. Almost each direction change caused the front to jump up loosing grip.
Triumph Daytona - same issue as above.

People who play using steering wheel might not notice this problem, as they can turn very smooth.


janaucarre

hi,
i remember alibaskins talking about older beta that his feeling was that the bikes are too much rigid like a skateboard. so at this time we try to set all the suspension settings to zero and the bikes were a bit more friendly, but the fork goes to the limit during hard braking and made the lose front easier.