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Motorbike Simulator for home.

Started by Salvador Felip, December 05, 2017, 11:18:42 am

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doubledragoncc

From what I have been told and from watching the terrible videos it is more hype than anything. I was told no foot controls that work and as for actually controlling the bike...................you need to really watch the vids and think about it.

Would have been great if it was really a FULL control system

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

maggikk22

I'm not sure of the efficiency of this universal simulator.
I also tried to build a prototype, and getting realistic sensations is really impossible if you don't get real time data from the game, at least the bike speed.
I'm not speaking about countersteering, handlebars movements, wheelies,... I'm only speaking about leaning:

1. The best example is the start: when you go out of the garage, the speed is very low. You need to lean the bike all the way to the bottom so the bike turns in the game.

2. Without force feedback that depends on the bike speed, sensations are not so good. So this simulator may be interesting for games that stream real time data, at least the speed. I don't know other games but GP Bikes able to do that "easily".
If the required movements are the same for 20 km/h and 200 km/h, then sensations are not realistic at all.

3. What's the maximum lean angle of your simulator? On mine, it is 45°. Beyond this angle, it is really hard to get back upright. Also, because there's no centrifugal effects that "sticks" you on the bike, riding is quite physical.

4. I really don't trust the springs-only system:
On your simulator, theorically, when you lean the bike, you get equilibrium at one single angle only.
At every other angular position, the torque provided by the rider+bike is different than the resistant torque provided by the springs. This means you will always tend to lean too much or not enough. Consequently, you will move your body on the bike a way that is completely different than reality.
For example, if you enter a left soft turn that require 5° only, you will try to slightly push the bike on the left side, while you will push your body on the right so you get equilibrium at 5°. in reality, you just need to slightly push your body on the left side. If you do that on the simulator, you will fall down to a higher angle.   
Same thing for getting the bike straight up: on the simulator, you need to move your body and pull the bike, whereas in reality it just requires a light body movement.
To me, springs tension must be adjusted for each angular position so equilibrium can be reached at any position .

5. I saw all your videos, but none of them show the game and the simulator on the same screen. Also, in-game sequences do not last more than a couple of seconds.
This makes me think you did not succeed to make 2 consecutive turns correctly.

doubledragoncc

Quote from: maggikk22 on March 01, 2019, 06:10:26 pm
5. I saw all your videos, but none of them show the game and the simulator on the same screen. Also, in-game sequences do not last more than a couple of seconds.
This makes me think you did not succeed to make 2 consecutive turns correctly.


Who are you talking about?

My videos show my system and riding and I do more than 2 dang corners!!!!!

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

maggikk22

sorry I'm replying to the top message about "LeanGP".
I love your system!
I don't like the LeanGP simulator. To me it's like the attached picture...
I'm 100% sure your system provide better sensations.
Sorry if I hurt you.

doubledragoncc

GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

maggikk22

this is my homemade simulator prototype.
To me, LeanGP should use more than simple springs if they want something playable.
I did so, results were not so bad, but still far away from reality...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxnQN0ZXmYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_nUObBl5iA

doubledragoncc

April 16, 2019, 02:43:29 pm #36 Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 03:18:21 pm by doubledragoncc
I have to say I am confused. you quoted on your Kickstarter site that:



When watching the video and pausing to see the systems:







So are these the new design for what you are offering or just for Ducati when they are sponsored by Marlboro?
I did not realise that Morlboro was going to be allowed to sponsor in racing again. Thanks for the info.

DD

Edit. I also thought the 749 was released in 2003? Have you been building systems so long? Wow I started in 2010 so you got more years in this than me and Im an old fart lol.
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

passerBy

April 16, 2019, 04:15:35 pm #37 Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 04:18:06 pm by passerBy
I'd say there is no point in a motion platform that keeps you leaned through the corner. Because if you'd feel the equally directed Gs in reality in a similar situation, you'd be a moment away from dropping the bike. While the real bike is leaned at speed through the corner, it has all the forces cancelled out. So that would be basically the same as sitting on it upright while stationary. This LeanGP is not much more than a fitness equipment.

Now, having it actually "fall" to a side while countersteering could be a very useful feature. You turn the bars away, the rig starts to drop inside, you quickly turn the bars inside as well to catch the fall and maintain the virtual bike's lean, whereas the actual thing you are sitting on comes back to the upright position.

Edit: in other words, you need to replicate with the motion platform what it feels like while issuing the control inputs to the bike, not what it looks like from the side.

doubledragoncc

It would take more than one motion system to replicate bike movement corretly as the bike is in reality 2 parts (front end) and (main frame),they act alone to some degree, but together on another axis(the road surface) You have to really think about it to understand and I am too dumb to be able to put it in words lol.

I want only a small amount of motion to help the feeling of riding but also for VR to counter some of the sicky feeling. Actually moving helps this.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

passerBy

Not quite sure what you mean there, DD... The fact that the handlebars need to allow for rotation and to provide force feedback (mostly torsional resistance to turning)? With that I agree absolutely. Other than that I'm not sure what could prevent from approximating the whole bike movement with just the frame on actuators.

Oh, and moving it only a small amount is perfect, since if you are not dropping it quickly enough with counter-steering, it won't be able to move much from the perceptional standpoint. The forwards/backwards frame lean is another matter, but I guess we can both live without properly simulating wheelies and endos :) Not to mention that a moderate movement motion platform is much safer to use. Maybe creating one that could high side you properly is not something easy to do in a garage anyway, but I'm sure most of those "biker-swinging" ones that are shown on YouTube can at some point lead to an injury. If not to the rider's, then to someone or something else that would happen to be in the "kill radius".

I'd personally be happy with a rig that could swing 10° to each side tops, only if it would actually try to replicate turning in, out and cornering G-forces by using Earth's gravity as a substitute.

davidboda46

The problem with creating a realistic motion rig is that there are too many axels and separate movements (maybe that's what you saying DD?). The front can slide but the rear stays in line, the rear can slide while the front stays in line and then both can slide simultaneously but sometimes to different degrees. Then you have the regular tilting left/right and the forward/backward tilting. Combine all of that, add counter steer into the mix (steering behaviour changing when you go aprox over 30 kph or so) and on top of that, we have head-shakes, high-sides (that sometimes are saved), wheelies, stoppies, fast transitional speeds from one side to the other and so on, you realize that for a super realistic rig you need a shitload of money and some NASA engineers... and a safety harness...

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

Vini

i agree, a motion system doesn't make sense even if you manage to work through all the engineering problems. a stationary handlebar system is simply more realistic because you are not pulled off the bike by gravity. as long as you have a seperate steering axis with force feedback, direct-steer-mode will give you all the feedback you need from the bike. you can increase intuition and immersion by making the handlebar lean (output only) but that's about it. DD's "inverted swing" handlebar system seems like the most ergonomical solution to that problem but it lacks the seperate steering axis.
a third axis to simulate the suspension (so wheelie or stoppie in the extremes) would already be overkill IMO.

doubledragoncc

From all I have testedand tried, it will take a minimum of 8 DOF on 3 seperate motion systems, think about it.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

daye

April 30, 2019, 05:03:56 pm #43 Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 05:05:50 pm by daye
Hello
Don't search more. The LEANGP is out date
I has the first buyer in kickstarter in december 2017, after 1 year no more news, any pic.
M
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leangp/leangp-first-affordable-and-foldable-motorcycle-si

he's back my money but's more people was  awaiting for it.

very good idea but's too long for realize