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October 16, 2019, 05:56:50 pm

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New official track

Started by PiBoSo, December 03, 2018, 04:46:18 pm

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Which official track would you prefer ( you can choose two! )?

Donington Park
Laguna Seca
Jerez
Mugello
Assen ( pre-2006 )
Spa
Other ( please write which one )

poumpouny

QuoteHe hasn't really ignored anything, as he's answered most if not all issues as to why he made that decision. As for being pissed off, there are now 2 high quality versions of mugello, why would you want a third? What's to be gained from that aside from dividing the community more, over which version should be run or is better?

Because i voted Mugello not for me, but for the future of GP Bikes.

If i remember well (i might be wrong) Old Assen was added to the poll choice, way later after the poll start. And Mugello was there since the start  :o .

This thread remind me my wife when she ask my opinion about something but since the start she already know what she will do  ;D

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: poumpouny on July 16, 2019, 07:29:22 amBecause i voted Mugello not for me, but for the future of GP Bikes.
 

I can't speak for everything, but I know old assen has been a top request for milestone to include in their classic content.

Quote from: poumpouny on July 16, 2019, 07:29:22 amThis thread remind me my wife when she ask my opinion about something but since the start she already know what she will do  ;D
 


I'm not even going near that, only to sya piboso possibly was looking for ideas and 'permission' to do something, and possibly to test the communities response to it

Myst1cPrun3

Either way, we're getting a new High quality, official track in GPB, and that can only be a good thing.

Hawk

Quote from: PiBoSo on December 03, 2018, 10:14:12 pmTo be honest, I strongly dislike the post-2005 Assen.
In my opinion they destroyed what made the circuit special, to shorten and "normalize" the layout. All purely for monetary reasons  >:(

How did I miss this....... Totally agree with you Piboso! You must be one of the older generation of GP500 bike fans?  ;D

What they did to the old Assen TT circuit was an absolute travesty...... It WAS the best GP bike circuit in the world until they bastardized it into what now typically represents the current state of MotoGP: A fake performancing, bastardized, non-entity sporting event. The big corporations have really done an excellent job selling their money spinning ideal version of the sport and destroying the very soul of a sport in the process without much of a whisper from the fans..... Well done Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, you finally got what you wanted, particularly Honda is to blame most for all this ruination of a sport, but Dorna let them have their way.... Wonder how much money was involved and passed around to let this happen, many years ago now?? >:(  ???  :P

guigui404

Tu nous fatigues avec les 500cc 2 temps Hawk , vis avec ton temps s'il te plaƮt

Myst1cPrun3

Assen was changed primarily for safety reasons, and to keep up to modern standards.

Its important to note the changes were made PRIMARILY for car racing, and motogp/wsbk was not the priority.

To high entry speeds into corners with not enough run off.

As for the motogp issue, come on really, that's a ridiculous statement.

Enjoy it for what it is, and that's an exciting watch, with close races and contact. More like touring car racing, and is more exciting than BSB this year to me.
But that's not this topic that's the other one so yeah sos for that :/

Hawk

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on July 16, 2019, 11:06:57 amAssen was changed primarily for safety reasons, and to keep up to modern standards.

Its important to note the changes were made PRIMARILY for car racing, and motogp/wsbk was not the priority.

To high entry speeds into corners with not enough run off.

As for the motogp issue, come on really, that's a ridiculous statement.

Enjoy it for what it is, and that's an exciting watch, with close races and contact. More like touring car racing, and is more exciting than BSB this year to me.
But that's not this topic that's the other one so yeah sos for that :/

There was enough land to upgrade the run-off areas with the old Assen circuit.... There was no need to bastardize the classic layout of the track itself like they did. Bloody do gooders and selling off land for greed wins out yet again in ruining the all-time classic track layouts.... They don't give a toss mate.... Seems to be the fashion nowadays.

As for modern MotoGP, it's true that it is nothing like a true sport anymore.... Fake bikes, fake performance, that's not sport, need I say more. Lol!
It's nearly as bad as F1 used to be many years ago until they started to see the light and banned computer controlled cars.... At least in F1 now they have it so the drivers skill drives the car without any computer controlled interference. ;D  :P 

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Hawk on July 16, 2019, 07:48:50 pmThere was enough land to upgrade the run-off areas with the old Assen circuit....


Maybe, but it was also to upgrade facilities, they now have a kart track, amusement park, new entrance to ease congestion, and I think it said over 1000 new parking spaces. The upgrade was to bring lap times down, and give the crowd more action, as smaller tracks, = more laps = more times past crowd.

Quote from: Hawk on July 16, 2019, 07:48:50 pmBloody do gooders and selling off land for greed wins out yet again in ruining the all-time classic track layouts....


Land was not sold just reused, in the actual Assen course. In-fact most of the old tarmac still exists if I'm not mistaken, so you can walk around it I think.



Quote from: Hawk on July 16, 2019, 07:48:50 pmIt's nearly as bad as F1 used to be many years ago until they started to see the light and banned computer controlled cars.... At least in F1 now they have it so the drivers skill drives the car without any computer controlled interference. ;D  :P 


I'm not sure if youve watched F1 recently, but the cars can't run within at least one second of one another due to the 'dirty air' effect. (Cars produce so much downforce, that he car behind gets a slipstream around a corner basically, and has significantly reduced downforce so the gaps are larger) And in terms of sport being fake *cough* DRS *Cough*


As for the lack of computer controlled interference, again, IDK if you've seen F1 recently but the entire bloody thing is a computer, and the hardest part of operating one is remembering where the switches are, and not the actual driving.

And the driving, well.... Drivers have stated that the modern 2017-19 cars are easier to drive than the 2004-2006 cars, which had all the aids, such as TC, STM and LC.

I'd rather have electronically close racing, where the top 10 are covered by less than 5 seconds, and constantly swapping places, than a pre-cession but without electronics. All about the spectacle, and close racing will always win over no electronics, as it should, as 62 degrees of lean smoking the rear tyre is a spectacle. Sure to you it may be fake but that doesn't make it any less cool. To me a modern Computer nerd that kinda makes it more cool knowing just what technology is capable of.



Myst1cPrun3

As for there being enough room there is a road that runs around where the old circuit was, so they really would have struggled to extend it further. 5-10 metres at the most.

Hawk

July 17, 2019, 08:08:07 am #189 Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 08:22:13 am by Hawk
Sorry mate, but if you look at the maps of the old circuit and the new layout, including the extra facilities they've built into the new circuit, you can clearly see that they had plenty of land to do the work they wanted to do without bastardizing the old classic layout.... It was sacrilege what they did to that brilliant GP track.

As far as reducing speeds on circuits..... What the hell?? This is motor racing, it's supposed to be fast..... It's just the namby-pamby snowflake younger generation interfering where it's not needed..... Often talked about health & safety gone mad, well these sort of actions are typical of the reason people say that. ::)
And what about the TT races? Why aren't you all screaming we ban those if people are so concerned about speed and rider/circuit safety??

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reasonable safety precautions when and were it's possible, but in places where it's not possible then it is what it is and riders would accept that and ride accordingly.... I'm damn sure real racers wouldn't want classic circuits bastardized just because certain sections are considered fast and dangerous but cannot be made any safer than they currently are.  ;)  :)

As for F1, at least it's the driver now that is doing the deciding of what he wants and not a computer doing it in real-time...... There is no TC, anti-lock brakes, aided start procedures or suspension adjustments done by computers anymore in F1 like there used to be... It is very much a driver machine result now and not achieved through computer aids...... Big difference to what MotoGP currently is doing to aid the riders and their machines with electronics.

If it was just one thing I'd like to see taken out of the modern MotoGP bikes it would be to end TC altogether, just so that it was the rider who was in total control of the application of the bikes power and not the computer.... That would go a very long way to bringing back a major rider skill into the sport.

Myst1cPrun3

July 17, 2019, 09:51:21 am #190 Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 09:56:31 am by Myst1cPrun3
Quote from: Hawk on July 17, 2019, 08:08:07 amSorry mate, but if you look at the maps of the old circuit and the new layout, including the extra facilities they've built into the new circuit, you can clearly see that they had plenty of land to do the work they wanted to do without bastardizing the old classic layout.... It was sacrilege what they did to that brilliant GP track.



I'm going to assume you're missing th public road around the perimeter of the track, about 20m from the old racing surface, which isn't owned by the circuit, and could not be moved...
The new entrance is where the old turn one used to be, and the new faclities are where the infield used to be. So there was no additional area used, as they didn't have any.






Quote from: Hawk on July 17, 2019, 08:08:07 amAs far as reducing speeds on circuits..... What the hell?? This is motor racing, it's supposed to be fast..... It's just the namby-pamby snowflake younger generation interfering where it's not needed..... Often talked about health & safety gone mad, well these sort of actions are typical of the reason people say that. ::)
And what about the TT races? Why aren't you all screaming we ban those if people are so concerned about speed and rider/circuit safety??


Never said reduce speed. Just said the vehicles were going to fast into a turn with that amount of run off. Even 250s ended up in the wall/ditch at t1 on old layout.
Either increase run off or reduce speed. Sadly, they could only do the second.

As for the namby pamby snowflake generation, it's entirely subjective. I am 20 years old, so I guess I am part of this snowflake generation, (sadly), and I love the danger of it, for better or worse I guess. Doesn't mean I want people to die/get injured however.
People being injured on a circuit that seems old fashioned is a surefire way to lose business and public favour. Look at what happened at Aintree... Someone got injured it went public and they lost their circuit license.

Could easily happen at other places.

Quote from: Hawk on July 17, 2019, 08:08:07 amAs for F1, at least it's the driver now that is doing the deciding of what he wants and not a computer doing it in real-time...... There is no TC, anti-lock brakes, aided start procedures or suspension adjustments done by computers anymore in F1 like there used to be... It is very much a driver machine result now and not achieved through computer aids...... Big difference to what MotoGP currently is doing to aid the riders and their machines with electronics.



I would rather it have electronics and be exciting than none and boring like it is currently.
It is fortunate however that electronics aren't going to fix f1s issues, unless you bring in active suspension to accommodate the reduced downforce.

But rh engineers on the pit wall decide anything from rev limits to engine power available. The entire car is a computer. While there are no standard 'aids', the systems can easily be used to emulate them. They have electronically adjustable diffs fgs.

Quote from: Hawk on July 17, 2019, 08:08:07 amIf it was just one thing I'd like to see taken out of the modern MotoGP bikes it would be to end TC altogether, just so that it was the rider who was in total control of the application of the bikes power and not the computer.... That would go a very long way to bringing back a major rider skill into the sport.


You realise that even in BSB where there is no TC the rider still doesn't control the power don't you? Engineers actively control the systems power in each gear.
Motogp would do something similar, meaning that again, you're 'desired' sill would still not be there.

As for Gp rider skills, theyre still there, but there are others as well, that get more press.
Riders have to be able to interpret the squiggly data graphs and decide what to do, etc. Much more computer brains in it now than in the past, and that's the way it should be. Cyberpunk is coming, can't wait to lose all my limbs and get fake ones... ;)

Myst1cPrun3

Id rather see an old course changed than demolished. RIP my beautiful hockenheim 😢

GP500

Regarding tracks we all would love to see and currently available conversions, if those converters approached the content creators - not Milestone/Codemasters/rF1 rips from GPL-NR2003-GTL-GTR - and asked for permission to port, most of the time the answer would be a resounding "Yes." GP Bikes isn't a competitor to the 4-wheeled racing games and scratch-made content from 2014 through now, especially for Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2 is really at a different level. Even rFactor 1 content such as Brianza GP and Northamptonshire would be permissible and quite useful especially if the conversion works to optimize the assets to GPB. The added benefit is discussion being allowed in the GPB boards.

About Assen, it's a bit telling that despite the modification, it is still one of the top circuits in the calendar.

Hawk

I give up on you young ones..... Sometimes I think your a lost cause with no appreciation for what's right and wrong in sport these days???
I mean where has the honor gone from a lot of sports, where has the true sporting spirit gone?

It seems to me that the younger-gen are only interested in winning at any cost and be-damned with any sense of what true sport is all about.

It's the same attitude with your computer gaming with a lot of youngsters these days.... So long as they win whether it's by hack or crook that's perfectly okay with them.... I just don't understand cause you surely can't get any sort of fulfillment or pride from the direction many sports have gone these days?

Modern attitudes..... Phfff!!! PURE MADNESS!!! :o  :o  :o :P

Myst1cPrun3

July 18, 2019, 06:09:56 am #194 Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 06:16:59 am by Myst1cPrun3
Quote from: Hawk on July 18, 2019, 02:08:30 amI give up on you young ones..... Sometimes I think your a lost cause with no appreciation for what's right and wrong in sport these days???
I mean where has the honor gone from a lot of sports, where has the true sporting spirit gone?


I'm not sure using a motorbike with Traction Control is the same as having no honor, I mean, you don't see the Japanese riders committing seppuku at the end of a race do you...

As for true sporting spirit, the definition of that is:

"If you are ready to compete in a fair manner without favouring yourself or others unjustly and never giving up when things are hard accepting defeat and victory without arrogance or bitterness, that is a sporting spirit"

I don't know, but to me that seems still highly relevant to current sports and motogp, everyone shakes hands at the end, and for the most part it's a fair race. Rossi atm is the epitome of never giving up, and Marquez remains quite humble, considering he's winning everything that exists..

Quote from: Hawk on July 18, 2019, 02:08:30 amIt seems to me that the younger-gen are only interested in winning at any cost and be-damned with any sense of what true sport is all about.


Sport is about winning. If we don't want to win, what's the point at competing?

There isn't one.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm just going to jog the 100m Olympic finals as winning just isn't honoured. Can you hear what you're saying its ridiculous.
Its a RACE, the goal of a Race is to finish first, fairly of course, which again for the most part, motogp does.

Quote from: Hawk on July 18, 2019, 02:08:30 amIt's the same attitude with your computer gaming with a lot of youngsters these days.... So long as they win whether it's by hack or crook that's perfectly okay with them.... I just don't understand cause you surely can't get any sort of fulfillment or pride from the direction many sports have gone these days?


I can speak from experience when it comes to hacking, as I did hack Csgo and I did get banned from it, and as a result I know some games are very, very trying of one's patience.
However it's not the right thing to do and I really don't encourage anyone to do it.

I will say, you do get a DIFFERENT enjoyment out of it, owning people, and seeing them get mad, after you've just gone through all those feelings. It's a bit of a satisfying thing oddly, and for me, wasn't to do with winning the game but just releasing my frustration onto someone else, which is a complete low blow yes I know.


Quote from: Hawk on July 18, 2019, 02:08:30 amModern attitudes..... Phfff!!! PURE MADNESS!!! :o  :o  :o :P

The problem is the Old 'we have to go back as it was better then' attitudes, unable to accept change, and keeping us stuck 10 years back at least. This isn't 1987, things have changed, accept that move on, and in the immortal words of Disney,

LET IT GO.

That happened, instead of being sad its not around anymore, be happy you got to experience it at the time .
Because I didn't, and I wish I could have.