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April 25, 2019, 09:10:30 am

News:

GP Bikes beta15b available! :)


GP Bikes beta15

Started by PiBoSo, February 06, 2019, 04:59:22 pm

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Alby46

I mean, the default setup
Still riding a 50cc, but enjoying it :)

adrian_melandri

Quote from: KG_03 on February 10, 2019, 01:08:28 am
Ok I have done more rides and testing. Need to do more runs as Victoria is very flat with not many bumps. However as ludo05 said about shifting down in a corner. I wonder if there are many people who shift down in a corner. It cause bike instability and can leaf to crash. It might be different with downshifter.

Why I like current bike? Because there is very little margin for error. When riding in full lean it means you are on the edge. Not everywhere you can ride in full lean so you need to know when you can get that extra lean and where you dont.

With some recent mods we were used to all time grip in full lean and the slide out occured only when you were braking in turns or downshifted too soon. M2 bike has great feeling in both braking, cornering and accelerating. Even engine brake feels good once you get used to revmatchig or not downshifting too fast.

I can agree now with this! +1000
I personally have never been downshifting in a corner, I either downshift before entering a corner or after hitting the apex and want to get out of the corner...  ;D
I've tried to use the MaxHUD to see the lean angle and I finally get it, I always crash whenever I'm leaning on 60 degrees. But the most irritating one is, sometimes when I'm not on full lean, for example when I'm exiting from a corner (even under 60 degrees lean angle), I still get front end crash...  :-\ :-\
I play racing games, mostly Motorcycle Racing. I love Skyrim too.

Tosteetos

A lot of improvement over the previous. The braking bug was nicely addressed. Really enjoying this aspect of the beta so far.

On the front end wash: I'm with others in that we need to have repercussions for getting too overzealous on the bike, however, the frontend washes out inconsistently and unrealistically too easy. Even picking the bike up from not even full lean in the most subtle ways will fold the front sometimes. The biggest problem is that it happens inconsistently, so you cannot gauge where the limit really is.  Needs fixing or you are going to piss off a lot of people trying out the beta if you are planning on releasing on steam.

Nice work!

matty0l215

The front washout seems to be caused by the front tyre overheating mid turn.

With set up tweaks it can be almost solved. However, it does need to be addressed by Piboso. Maybe just a tempory bike update??

davidboda46

My initial thoughts are that the front tire issue must be addressed with the new bike. My experience might be different from most of you because I use a custom controller instead of a game pad. With direct steering set to 100 (otherwise the controller lag is unbearable) the main issue is that the front goes as soon as you start to pick the bike up, the slightest steering input causes the front to wash out. This might be bike behavior or an overly violent first input from the virtual rider. The second main issue is simular but has to do with throttle input. If I add the slightest throttle, when I wan't to start accelerating from the apex for the exit, the front goes. And I'm talking microscopic amounts of throttle input. So the options left are either never go full lean or never close the throttle (sometimes even those two can't prevent it from happening), or try to pick the bike up by blowing on the handle bar and adding throttle with your pinkie finger... not very good options...

Du you guys who use gamepad also have these issues? or is it more full lean wash when you are keeping constant throttle and steer input?

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

PiBoSo

"Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent".

Hawk

Quote from: davidboda46 on February 10, 2019, 11:56:04 pm
My initial thoughts are that the front tire issue must be addressed with the new bike. My experience might be different from most of you because I use a custom controller instead of a game pad. With direct steering set to 100 (otherwise the controller lag is unbearable) the main issue is that the front goes as soon as you start to pick the bike up, the slightest steering input causes the front to wash out. This might be bike behavior or an overly violent first input from the virtual rider. The second main issue is simular but has to do with throttle input. If I add the slightest throttle, when I wan't to start accelerating from the apex for the exit, the front goes. And I'm talking microscopic amounts of throttle input. So the options left are either never go full lean or never close the throttle (sometimes even those two can't prevent it from happening), or try to pick the bike up by blowing on the handle bar and adding throttle with your pinkie finger... not very good options...

Du you guys who use gamepad also have these issues? or is it more full lean wash when you are keeping constant throttle and steer input?

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


I used to have the same issues in the past and we solved it on our MODbikes by adjusting the VR.
Trouble is that it seems very few people use high direct steer settings cause most riders apparently use a gamepad and set the direct steer pretty low to suit....

Can you try the CAWS GP500 modbikes and see if your having the same issues please mate? If not then it could point to the current VR settings being your problem, ie, the VR being a little too violent with initial handlebar inputs when DS at 100%. Took us a lot of trial and error testing to get this problem sorted out back then.

I wonder if DD is having the same issues with beta 15? He sets DS very high too.

JohnnoNinja

I've tried beta 15 just briefly, so I don't have an opinion about the whole package yet, but the "easy front wash-out" destroys the experience. Last few beta's where better regarding front grip. I do appreciate the effort for improving GpBikes, but I hope Piboso will fix this "problem" as well.

KG_03

@David Boda:
I use game pad. Previously I had many problems with bikes and I lost front grip in the same circumstances as you describe - when i picked up the bike.

But then it came out that i had too much direct lean and not smoothed out. I have changed the settings and its not a problem anymore.

davidboda46

Quote from: Hawk on February 11, 2019, 06:33:16 am
Quote from: davidboda46 on February 10, 2019, 11:56:04 pm
My initial thoughts are that the front tire issue must be addressed with the new bike. My experience might be different from most of you because I use a custom controller instead of a game pad. With direct steering set to 100 (otherwise the controller lag is unbearable) the main issue is that the front goes as soon as you start to pick the bike up, the slightest steering input causes the front to wash out. This might be bike behavior or an overly violent first input from the virtual rider. The second main issue is simular but has to do with throttle input. If I add the slightest throttle, when I wan't to start accelerating from the apex for the exit, the front goes. And I'm talking microscopic amounts of throttle input. So the options left are either never go full lean or never close the throttle (sometimes even those two can't prevent it from happening), or try to pick the bike up by blowing on the handle bar and adding throttle with your pinkie finger... not very good options...

Du you guys who use gamepad also have these issues? or is it more full lean wash when you are keeping constant throttle and steer input?

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


I used to have the same issues in the past and we solved it on our MODbikes by adjusting the VR.
Trouble is that it seems very few people use high direct steer settings cause most riders apparently use a gamepad and set the direct steer pretty low to suit....

Can you try the CAWS GP500 modbikes and see if your having the same issues please mate? If not then it could point to the current VR settings being your problem, ie, the VR being a little too violent with initial handlebar inputs when DS at 100%. Took us a lot of trial and error testing to get this problem sorted out back then.

I wonder if DD is having the same issues with beta 15? He sets DS very high too.


I'll give it a try during the week and see if the problem persists or not with the GP500. I'll report back. :) /Cheers,
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

davidboda46

Quote from: davidboda46 on February 11, 2019, 10:09:19 am
Quote from: Hawk on February 11, 2019, 06:33:16 am
Quote from: davidboda46 on February 10, 2019, 11:56:04 pm
My initial thoughts are that the front tire issue must be addressed with the new bike. My experience might be different from most of you because I use a custom controller instead of a game pad. With direct steering set to 100 (otherwise the controller lag is unbearable) the main issue is that the front goes as soon as you start to pick the bike up, the slightest steering input causes the front to wash out. This might be bike behavior or an overly violent first input from the virtual rider. The second main issue is simular but has to do with throttle input. If I add the slightest throttle, when I wan't to start accelerating from the apex for the exit, the front goes. And I'm talking microscopic amounts of throttle input. So the options left are either never go full lean or never close the throttle (sometimes even those two can't prevent it from happening), or try to pick the bike up by blowing on the handle bar and adding throttle with your pinkie finger... not very good options...

Du you guys who use gamepad also have these issues? or is it more full lean wash when you are keeping constant throttle and steer input?

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


I used to have the same issues in the past and we solved it on our MODbikes by adjusting the VR.
Trouble is that it seems very few people use high direct steer settings cause most riders apparently use a gamepad and set the direct steer pretty low to suit....

Can you try the CAWS GP500 modbikes and see if your having the same issues please mate? If not then it could point to the current VR settings being your problem, ie, the VR being a little too violent with initial handlebar inputs when DS at 100%. Took us a lot of trial and error testing to get this problem sorted out back then.

I wonder if DD is having the same issues with beta 15? He sets DS very high too.


I'll give it a try during the week and see if the problem persists or not with the GP500. I'll report back. :) /Cheers,


@Hawk. I tried the G500:s (just a short run), less problems but still it happens. Weirdly enough, the one bike that did not have any of the issues I mentioned before is the GP500_Honda_NSR_2001. But my bike folder is pretty full and I don't even know when that bike stopped being updated for new betas.

I might be wrong but my conclusion is that the VR is to harsh on initial steering and throttle input, when the bike goes from no suspension movement (off throttle) or is at max lean angle and that causes the bike to be unstable. If the problem would just be edge grip than the bike would fall more often when at max lean with neutral input. But the problem could also have something to do with chassis flex or tire deformation, since the bikes been known to have issues with bumps and cambered up/down corners and the suspension doesn't do much at high lean angles. But I'm only guessing here... 

Cheers.
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

Hawk

Quote from: davidboda46 on February 11, 2019, 05:58:21 pm
Quote from: davidboda46 on February 11, 2019, 10:09:19 am
Quote from: Hawk on February 11, 2019, 06:33:16 am
Quote from: davidboda46 on February 10, 2019, 11:56:04 pm
My initial thoughts are that the front tire issue must be addressed with the new bike. My experience might be different from most of you because I use a custom controller instead of a game pad. With direct steering set to 100 (otherwise the controller lag is unbearable) the main issue is that the front goes as soon as you start to pick the bike up, the slightest steering input causes the front to wash out. This might be bike behavior or an overly violent first input from the virtual rider. The second main issue is simular but has to do with throttle input. If I add the slightest throttle, when I wan't to start accelerating from the apex for the exit, the front goes. And I'm talking microscopic amounts of throttle input. So the options left are either never go full lean or never close the throttle (sometimes even those two can't prevent it from happening), or try to pick the bike up by blowing on the handle bar and adding throttle with your pinkie finger... not very good options...

Du you guys who use gamepad also have these issues? or is it more full lean wash when you are keeping constant throttle and steer input?

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


I used to have the same issues in the past and we solved it on our MODbikes by adjusting the VR.
Trouble is that it seems very few people use high direct steer settings cause most riders apparently use a gamepad and set the direct steer pretty low to suit....

Can you try the CAWS GP500 modbikes and see if your having the same issues please mate? If not then it could point to the current VR settings being your problem, ie, the VR being a little too violent with initial handlebar inputs when DS at 100%. Took us a lot of trial and error testing to get this problem sorted out back then.

I wonder if DD is having the same issues with beta 15? He sets DS very high too.


I'll give it a try during the week and see if the problem persists or not with the GP500. I'll report back. :) /Cheers,


@Hawk. I tried the G500:s (just a short run), less problems but still it happens. Weirdly enough, the one bike that did not have any of the issues I mentioned before is the GP500_Honda_NSR_2001. But my bike folder is pretty full and I don't even know when that bike stopped being updated for new betas.

I might be wrong but my conclusion is that the VR is to harsh on initial steering and throttle input, when the bike goes from no suspension movement (off throttle) or is at max lean angle and that causes the bike to be unstable. If the problem would just be edge grip than the bike would fall more often when at max lean with neutral input. But the problem could also have something to do with chassis flex or tire deformation, since the bikes been known to have issues with bumps and cambered up/down corners and the suspension doesn't do much at high lean angles. But I'm only guessing here... 

Cheers.


Yep I hear what your saying about the throttle too..... It really does sound exactly like the issue we worked on and it was definitely a combination of VR, tyre and geometry settings that seemed to solve the problem at the time.
I can only presume that something has changed....... I haven't had chance to test yet with beta 15 but I will do so soon.  :)

doubledragoncc

Not had time to test beta 15 but finishing Bobs system this week so will do full test. I am using the steering damper so it changes how it feels,

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

davidboda46

Thought I just add that Manu's Yamaha MotoGP17 bike has no front end issues around Victoria for me, it actually feels more safe on the front than in Beta13... so now I'm completely confused... guess I have to go through every bike and compare 13 to 15... will just take me a year or so...  ;)

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

doubledragoncc

Did you change the clutch in cfg when testing david?

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler