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November 25, 2020, 02:02:36 PM

News:

GP Bikes beta18c available! :)


The M30x/MCCC/Lumberbar

Started by Chris_Beeves, May 06, 2019, 09:07:40 PM

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Chris_Beeves

A brief demo of the status today

I had to try..

davidboda46

Awesome!

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

Vini

Crazy! Some incredible innovations in this project.


Are you still using Direct-Steer Torque mode? If so, how does the bike behave when the front is not aligned while wheelying?

How does the fact that the handlebar is not representing the bike lean angle influence playability?

What happened at the end there? The steering angle did not seem to match the one on screen.

Chris_Beeves

Thanks guys!

@Vini, no I changed to angle when I made the move to the standard force feedback. Torque didn't make any sense. Haven't tried it with this motor, but I suspect it would be similar. I'll give it a shot.

DS2(angle) when wheeling is very nice. The bars get light and give a nice kick when touching down again if the angle doesn't match.

In the end I lost the rear. I held on to the bars harder than the motor could push.
It's a compromise. Force feedback is a little buggy in the game and setting too high force makes the whole thing oscillate.
I had to try..

Vini

Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 11, 2020, 07:47:53 PMDS2(angle) when wheeling is very nice. The bars get light and give a nice kick when touching down again if the angle doesn't match.
Does the front stay misaligned (like this) or is it being auto-centered? Does the front send the bike into a wobble when its dropped and not aligned?

Manu

It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.

Chris_Beeves

Quote from: Vini on May 12, 2020, 12:23:42 PMDoes the front stay misaligned (like this) or is it being auto-centered?
Yeah, it stays misaligned. The bars lose pretty much all resistance when the wheel leaves the ground.
My guess is that the ffb is calculated mostly from the "steer torque" and, even though it is extremely noisy at times, works very well 95% of the time (If you don't use too much force, then it goes bananas).

However, I have been experimenting with having a small spring effect in the background though to stiffen up the feeling of the bars a bit more (if I could just raise the force that wouldn't be necessary). This is present even when the wheel is off the ground, but that is not GPbikes fault just mine. :)

Quote from: Vini on May 12, 2020, 12:23:42 PMDoes the front send the bike into a wobble when its dropped and not aligned?
When accelerating, not so much. But if I roll off the throttle too fast, it gets quite nervous on landing. I would say it reacts quite similar to how a real bike would.

Quote from: Manu on May 12, 2020, 12:46:31 PMGreat job!
Thanks Manu!
I had to try..

matty0l215


Chris_Beeves

It's really fun to get some questions and feedback! Appreciate it

Quote from: matty0l215 on May 12, 2020, 01:17:06 PMNice work Chris!
Thanks mate!
I had to try..

h106frp

Very nice so far..
Could you use a stepper drive rather than a servo? I was just thinking you could then alter the holding current to get better control of the position when you have very little force feedback signal without the need for ramping up the overall loop gain.

Vini

Thanks for the answers. Even more proof that PiBoSo needs to relax the virtual rider under acceleration, as it interferes with the physics.


How noticable is the increase in steering resistance at higher velocities and does it make change of direction significantly slower or can you just overpower the motor?

Chris_Beeves

Quote from: h106frp on May 12, 2020, 02:13:22 PMVery nice so far..
Could you use a stepper drive rather than a servo? I was just thinking you could then alter the holding current to get better control of the position when you have very little force feedback signal without the need for ramping up the overall loop gain.

That was the initial idea, but even the consumer level stepper motor drivers that support FOC (necessary to avoid the 'notches' in the stepper) are quite a bit more expensive. The driver I got cost just 18€. Good point however, and I will keep my eyes open for this.
I'm still playing around with the settings a bit, and I may well be able to raise the force setting if I dial it in better.

Quote from: Vini on May 12, 2020, 02:36:54 PMThanks for the answers. Even more proof that PiBoSo needs to relax the virtual rider under acceleration, as it interferes with the physics.
How noticable is the increase in steering resistance at higher velocities and does it make change of direction significantly slower or can you just overpower the motor?

Yeah, there is something strange there.
The increase is noticeable enough I would say. Even when I overpower the motor it doesn't feel as weird as you would imagine. It looks strange on video, but is kind of acceptable IRL if you know what I mean.
I had to try..

Vini

What exactly was the problem with the 'A.S.S.-unit' BTW?


The last step now would be to make the handelbar swivel around you according to the lean angle of the bike, similar to DD's system.
Given the correct positioning, radius and angle scaling, the relative position to the handlebar would make you feel like actually hanging off to the side of the bike.

Chris_Beeves

The A.S.S. worked, but even though there was a click when leaning enough to trigger the rider it was really hard to get a feel for it. It would probably work better if it was analog and the center was more noticeable when driving. It feels like it takes some practice even with the trackIR controlling the rider.

Not sure about the tilting.. Do you mean to get the lean angle from the game and have a servo turn the whole thing?
I had to try..

Vini

May 13, 2020, 08:08:32 PM #74 Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 08:11:15 PM by Vini
Ah, so the "ASS" was digital. I guess you'd need some sort of dynamic filter that automatically recalibrates the center position.
The only flexible, analog pressure sensing mat I found was this, which seems a little bit expensive...
You could probably build something yourself for much less since you don't nearly need that much accuracy.

Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 13, 2020, 05:15:54 PMNot sure about the tilting.. Do you mean to get the lean angle from the game and have a servo turn the whole thing?
Yes, exactly. Connect the handlebar to this additional servo with an arm to get the handlebar to swivel around you so that the relative position between you and the bars changes in a similar way it would when hanging off a real bike. You can see it in DD's principle, although the mounting position seems very low and the movement range quite small, probably because the bars are so wide.