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So, what's next?

Started by DidietXFuera, June 21, 2019, 08:05:04 am

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Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: WALKEN on June 25, 2019, 11:32:29 pmMystic- GP500 runs perfect in WINE in Linux, (that is an option)


Thanks I'll look into it. :)

Quote from: WALKEN on June 25, 2019, 11:32:29 pmI guess I'm lost? If Physics are the most important thing about GPBikes and PiBoSo is coding his own engine (physics code) then the only real advantage to using a different engine would be for graphics? No? In that case we are back at the beginning of what out weighs the other.
               

This to me is the entire issue. What outweighs the other, and for me, the answer is neither. BOTH, are as important as each other, as together both make a complete package.
At the minute, the physics are, for the most part, in GPB very good, and way ahead of the sim graphically. This becomes an issue as when a potential customers look on YouTube at the Sim, they don't feel the physics, they see a 10+ year old engine running dated graphics.
Bringing the the graphics up to the level of the physics should be a priority, as this will improve the overall feel of the sim, (to me at least), and hopefully attract new GP Bikers.


Quote from: WALKEN on June 25, 2019, 11:32:29 pmSo suggesting UE4 would be for graphics? And how would using say Havok or PhysX be better suited than PiBoSos own physics code?

IMO it would cause even more delay and frustration for PiBoSo.
               

From what I can gather you don't have to use any of those, and can utilise your own physics coding/engine.

Maybe a delay initially, but the tools are readily available for UE4 for pib to use, and because of its popularity it would be easy to ask somewhere for support should he have an issue, rather than have to figure it out himself, meaning less glitches, and less development time for new features/updates.


Physics reflecting the real world 100% isn't always the best idea, I know for me I would get more from an experience using something that feels natural to use, and not necessarily 100% realistic.
I remember a dev saying that you can put all the real world values in, you can have a 100% accurate vehicle in a sim, and it still won't handle how it is in the real world, due to one thing or another, and that a certain degree of compromise/adaptation is needed.
Should imagine Pibs GPB is very similar.





Hawk

+1 on that Myst1cPrun3

With reference to what Walken was saying about sim realism - I'd say that of course dev's can only simulate the reaction of the bike model to the data input in any given situation, which hopefully will be real-life data to get a realistic response to any inputs either via the controller or the environmental model inputs via the track model and even inputs from possible weather model conditions too. The fact that this doesn't always lead to a realistic response indicates that something is missing in the physics model or even environment model inputs.
But the visuals in a simulation are very important for things like speed cues and all sorts of various other cues that the human brain can pick-up on that poor graphics are unable to provide....
The fact that Piboso's physics model does actually give the user a lot of good bike model reaction that the human brain can interpret to react with is a credit to Piboso's talent as a programmer, but of course there is the obvious things that a simulator on a PC screen can never simulate, like the G-forces and feedback of all the subtle vibrations and feeling you get from actually riding a bike in real-life, they can only be cleverly substituted via onscreen movements and other graphical cues via the screen that the human brain can then pick-up on and translate into the required actions to control the simulated bike model on screen. Again, this is why the visual fidelity of a simulator is SO important as well as the simulated physics and environment model.
Those that are saying that it's only the physics that are more important than the visuals want to try running GPBikes at 648 X 480 Rez on their monitor and they will soon realise just how important the quality of visuals are to being able to pick-up all those subtle visual cues that you'll lose with such a low quality rez screen. I think DD was more or less pointing out the same sort of thing when pushing for the better visual qualities of UE4.

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Hawk on June 26, 2019, 07:46:42 amTry running GPBikes at 648 X 480 Rez on their monitor


I'm going to try that later for a bit of a laff will post screenshot of my results 😂

doubledragoncc

GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Aernouts2

June 26, 2019, 02:12:13 pm #64 Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 02:16:35 pm by Aernouts2
Ok my 2 (maybe 3) cents here.
I know i am not a wel known (accepted) member on this forum but thats ok to me.

1.
I read a lot of stuff (info) about Piboso should use Ureal engine... i reckon thats NOT gonna happen.
He has coded his own engine from the ground up he is never gonna move to Unreal engine.. i understand that if i was him.. well i am with Piboso.  (that means no money income for a long time).

2.
GPBikes started developing, and this is my guess in 2002/2003 because if i remember right in first demo's bike models were from the 2004 season ? (maybe i am wrong)
So its showing its age for sure.. Is it important ? yes and no something needs to happen IMO but for me it can wait a bit more...

To make sure this game will be a successor .. yes its time time to upgrade when Piboso has some spare time on his hands.

3.
I could live with some outdated graphics if the game had great AI's
Because the game allready has (decent) Physics, it's modable, if i remember rigth there is online and LAN play (which seems to be outdated but it should be in every game).

I used to create mods for MotoGP 2 ( i released several longgg time ago) and to be able to create a complete MotoGP or SBK mod with a full starting grid (AI's
which you are able to play Online and Offline is something which should be available for a game like this.

BTW.
That does not mean i am gonna make mods again in near future (gettingolder and not much spare time)

Blackheart

GPB graphics is similar at Rfactor 1 (my first and favourite sim for years) but who in 2019 still play to rfactor 1?

I remember at new users here than this year will be released BSE... If GP Bikes will not change engine, it will be difficult (or impossible) to survive.

Aernouts2

June 26, 2019, 03:17:47 pm #66 Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 03:27:20 pm by Aernouts2
Yeah for sure thats true.

But upgrading to Unreal engine is not gonna happen, how on earth would Piboso do that (its a 1 man's band right ?)
Its probably more easy to update his own engine a bit.  ;)

And then again a bike racing (simulator) with no AI ? is IMO not a bestseller aswell.

If this game back in the early days was realeased with competitive AI's which Piboso has talent enough for.

I dunno i would have bought it for sure.. personaly i dont have time to go through all this hassle to get a online game going on...
and once your connected there is lag, disconnections,  people crashing into you pfff enough of that.

doubledragoncc

I think if Piboso could impliment the trainer more it would be as good as AI if we share trainers even better than Ai

For me GPB still holds up by is physics and controller input and adjustment AND VR to boot!!!

UE4 can do a lot more than just graphics btw

Maybe if GPB was started on UE4 as a side project and not as the main project it might work one day and not be a stress point

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Blackheart

Quote from: Aernouts2 on June 26, 2019, 03:17:47 pmon earth would Piboso do that (its a 1 man's band right ?)

Im quite sure than also BSE is created by 1-2 guys...

guigui404

Quote from: Blackheart on June 26, 2019, 03:51:31 pm
Quote from: Aernouts2 on June 26, 2019, 03:17:47 pmon earth would Piboso do that (its a 1 man's band right ?)

Im quite sure than also BSE is created by 1-2 guys...
I'm quite sure than PiBoSo isn't alone

WALKEN

Quote from: Aernouts2 on June 26, 2019, 02:12:13 pmOk my 2 (maybe 3) cents here.
I know i am not a wel known (accepted) member on this forum but thats ok to me.

1.
I read a lot of stuff (info) about Piboso should use Ureal engine... i reckon thats NOT gonna happen.
He has coded his own engine from the ground up he is never gonna move to Unreal engine.. i understand that if i was him.. well i am with Piboso.  (that means no money income for a long time).

2.
GPBikes started developing, and this is my guess in 2002/2003 because if i remember right in first demo's bike models were from the 2004 season ? (maybe i am wrong)
So its showing its age for sure.. Is it important ? yes and no something needs to happen IMO but for me it can wait a bit more...

To make sure this game will be a successor .. yes its time time to upgrade when Piboso has some spare time on his hands.

3.
I could live with some outdated graphics if the game had great AI's
Because the game allready has (decent) Physics, it's modable, if i remember rigth there is online and LAN play (which seems to be outdated but it should be in every game).

I used to create mods for MotoGP 2 ( i released several longgg time ago) and to be able to create a complete MotoGP or SBK mod with a full starting grid (AI's
which you are able to play Online and Offline is something which should be available for a game like this.

BTW.
That does not mean i am gonna make mods again in near future (gettingolder and not much spare time)


I remember your website, if your the same Aernouts? I played the holy hell out of Gp1 and 2.

I also agree about no point in changing engines, waste of time at this point and to much time vested in his own engine to switch now. Makes zero sense. IMO once PiBoSo irons out the bugs that are important to him then everything else will come there after.   
Help me, help you!

PiBoSo

Quote from: WALKEN on June 26, 2019, 05:52:28 pmI also agree about no point in changing engines, waste of time at this point and to much time vested in his own engine to switch now. Makes zero sense.

Agreed.
"Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent".

Myst1cPrun3

    Quote from: PiBoSo on June 26, 2019, 07:59:52 pm
    Quote from: WALKEN on June 26, 2019, 05:52:28 pmI also agree about no point in changing engines, waste of time at this point and to much time vested in his own engine to switch now. Makes zero sense.

    Agreed.

    Guess that answers that question then XD. Serious question though pib, do you have like a roadmap aside from steam releases?

    It'd be interesting to see something like:

    Priorities (Next Beta/Version):

    • Priority 1
    • Priority 2
    etc


    Hopefuls (try for next version but not too big of a deal if missed):

    • Hopeful 1
    • Hopeful 2
    etc


    Dreams (Future ideas, development not started):

    • Dream 1
    • Dream 2
    etc
    Perhaps with estimated dates, or ideal months of completion

    I'd be curious to see just what is going to come and what you hope to achieve either this quatre/year, and would help stem these 5 pages of random suggestions, when really a concrete answer is desired.[/list][/list]

    Myst1cPrun3

    I said I'd do it so I did:

    640x480 (Stretched)



    VS

    Same screenshot but 1920x1080 (native)



    GPB Can go higher but my monitor Can't, and very few can so there wasn't much point as it'd get down-scaled and lose the effect.


    Vini

    Moving to a different engine is unrealistic and unnecessary as it would stall all development of all sims for months if not for years, depending on how many tricky bugs emerge.
    Being able to run GPB on extremely low-end system with decent framerates is a major plus point of the sim.
    While all those new engines look nice and shiny, if you consider the "performance-to-graphics ratio" they are all unoptimized horseshit compared to game engines we had 10+ years ago.
    Bottom line, PiBoSo risks losing more players through higher system requirements than he can possible make through updated graphics alone.
    Keep in mind that all this is thinking positively! Switching the engine basically means starting development from sratch. I think most people here are drastically underestimating what this truely means in terms of coding work.

    That said, it would sure be interesting to know a bit more of PiBoSo's concrete development plans for the future.
    From what I can tell, physics (rightly) seem to be the priority, so the downhill/uphill bug is hopefully on top of that list as the last standing, major physics bug.

    It's vicous cycle: no money -> no ads & development -> no players -> no money......
    I think getting GPB on steam is the best chance of breaking out of it.
    Anyway, I am neither a coder nor a businessman so this is yet another opinion for PiBoSo to consider.