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Leg Dangle 'Return To Peg' Parameter Change

Started by Myst1cPrun3, September 13, 2019, 10:50:28 PM

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Myst1cPrun3

I'd also like to see the leg dangle 'return to peg' parameters changed.

As the leg comes out and returns depending on the brake force, often I get what I call the 'double drop', where I get a little sideways on entry, and have to ease off the brake, and then reapply it. This results in the leg going back on the peg and dropping again, when in reality, the leg would be out all the time.

If the 'return to peg' goes off the throttle position or lean angle instead of brake position it would keep the leg out when the bike goes 'slideways' on the brakes, which would be much more realistic.

You can see the 'double drop' on this video here:


Vini

I guess the leg dangle has to be dependent on the braking force. I don't see how you would do it otherwise if you don't want the leg to come out under the slightest braking which would look really strange.

The easier solution for now would be to give us the manual control option and then worry about perfecting the "dangle algorithm" later on.

Hawk

Quote from: Vini on September 14, 2019, 09:10:59 AMI guess the leg dangle has to be dependent on the braking force. I don't see how you would do it otherwise if you don't want the leg to come out under the slightest braking which would look really strange.

The easier solution for now would be to give us the manual control option and then worry about perfecting the "dangle algorithm" later on.

Leg dangle looks very strange anyway..... Looks like they are panicking to slow down quick enough! Lol! ;D  ;D

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Vini on September 14, 2019, 09:10:59 AMI guess the leg dangle has to be dependent on the braking force. I don't see how you would do it otherwise if you don't want the leg to come out under the slightest braking which would look really strange.

The easier solution for now would be to give us the manual control option and then worry about perfecting the "dangle algorithm" later on.

The algorithm that drops the leg is fine, it comes down at all the right points, and the points at which it drops is 'believable' so to speak.

The main issue is the return. So for me, perhaps when the leg has dropped change the return algorithm to run off lean angle. So when you apply a certain amount of lean it returns to the peg then, rather than when you let off the brake.

Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2019, 09:42:52 AMLeg dangle looks very strange anyway..... Looks like they are panicking to slow down quick enough! Lol! ;D  ;D

That's pretty much what it is I should imagine, way back when to when you were 5 and messed up on your bicycle and went to put your foot down.
Other thing is that it would move the center of weight out, even only a little, but I personally don't think that's the reason why they do it.

Hawk

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on September 14, 2019, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2019, 09:42:52 AMLeg dangle looks very strange anyway..... Looks like they are panicking to slow down quick enough! Lol! ;D  ;D

That's pretty much what it is I should imagine, way back when to when you were 5 and messed up on your bicycle and went to put your foot down.
Other thing is that it would move the center of weight out, even only a little, but I personally don't think that's the reason why they do it.

They all started doing it after Rossi did actually panic to slow down his bike into a corner and dangled his leg out, then Rossi did it at nearly every corner to save his embarrassment and then most of the other riders started to copy him cause they thought it must give Rossi an advantage, which it didn't of course. Such was Rossi's X-factor with other riders at the time. Now it's just become a fashion.... again just a sign of the times. LOL! The sooner it stops the better! ;D  ;D


Vini

September 14, 2019, 11:57:11 AM #5 Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 12:27:40 PM by Vini
The leg already returns based on lean angle and this is one of the reasons it doesn't look real.
I like to go sideways into most hard braking zones which results in the leg returning to the peg way too quickly even though I actually keep increasing brake pressure and the bike is still upright.
Lean angle should not be part of the equation, only brake input. Real MotoGP riders keep their leg out even when the bike is already leant over (watch Marquez in double apex / connected corners). They only do it if they feel like they are braking on the limit, which is not the case if you let off the brake.

Coming up with a good algorithm that works well in every scenario is extremely difficult.
...Which is why I really don't understand why PiBoSo is not considering the manual control.

edit: I guess you could put lean angle into the equation if you made the leg dangle have different "stages" so that the leg gets closer to the peg as you increase lean angle but the moment where it returns fully should still be purely dependent on brake force (or a dedicated button...).
Regarding your initial description, if you back off the brake and then reapply, the leg should not come out again because it means you were never on the limit in the first place.
So the way to solve it is to include some subroutine in the algorithm that keeps the leg from going out when there was no throttle input like half a second before the threshold braking force was reached.

Myst1cPrun3

September 17, 2019, 09:56:02 AM #6 Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 10:02:04 AM by Myst1cPrun3
The leg returns to base based off braking, and then lean angle, whichever comes first.

I know this cos in my video on Misano, and the montmelo one as well, I'm going straight when it goes back to peg and re drops again. Should also be noted that at no point did I apply throttle, in the 'problem' area all actions were done by braking

The reason I suggested using lean angle as using the current physics in GP Bikes the braking can be very in consistent and unpredictable. Very easy to get a tanks lapper under brakes, at which point in GPB it involves letting off the brakes to not crash.
In real life the guys who have wobbles like this let off the brakes, but do not return their legs to the pegs, if anything that's when they drop a leg.

In the Motogp games the leg drops at 1/2 brake pressure, meaning you can somewhat modulate the brakes into turns, and still keep the leg out, although the leg drops too much as the lean restriction is too far over.

Maybe reducing the pressure required to drop the leg would help, but using the brakes to drop the leg, then lean/throttle to return it would be ideal.

While a button would be cool, I think it'd just be too much, unless you can manually use a button to return it, not deploy it.

In the current iteration, while it is cool for some camera replays, and screenshot, and a very good first attempt it needs some tuning.

As for not being on the limit and reapplying the brakes, It wasn't because I was stopping short of the turn, but because the rear wheel was getting too far out of line, and about half a foot in the air, and again in GPB current physics, it doesn't respond to well to that.

Myst1cPrun3

September 17, 2019, 09:57:17 AM #7 Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 09:59:41 AM by Myst1cPrun3
Should be noted I use auto rider lean for f/R so my braking habits will be different to some, as I have to wait a little for the rider to 'catch up' and move his weight so to speak, so my braking looks a little different.

Off topic slightly, but for some reason if you use rider tracking for l/R  you can't use the f/R buttons, to overwrite it, but can use automatic to overwrite it. Weird

Myst1cPrun3