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January 28, 2020, 10:14:18 pm

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F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?

Started by Myst1cPrun3, January 13, 2020, 09:56:00 pm

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Myst1cPrun3

So I came across this link that f1s new engine format could be a revival of ye olde 2 smokers with alternate fuels and so on, and apparently MotoGP have been looking at similar options.

I think this could be a step backwards, due to emissions and so on. I actually believe diesel would be a better alternative for Grand Prix, a more forward looking option. (No electricity as motoe exists)

But still here's the link, any thoughts. I know what @Hawk is going to say before he even replies,but still..  ;D  ;)

https://www.visordown.com/news/racing/motogp/could-motogp-return-two-stroke-engine-formula

Hawk

January 14, 2020, 07:50:48 am #1 Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 07:54:02 am by Hawk
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 13, 2020, 09:56:00 pmSo I came across this link that f1s new engine format could be a revival of ye olde 2 smokers with alternate fuels and so on, and apparently MotoGP have been looking at similar options.

I think this could be a step backwards, due to emissions and so on. I actually believe diesel would be a better alternative for Grand Prix, a more forward looking option. (No electricity as motoe exists)

But still here's the link, any thoughts. I know what @Hawk is going to say before he even replies,but still..  ;D  ;)

https://www.visordown.com/news/racing/motogp/could-motogp-return-two-stroke-engine-formula

Hallelujah!! Common sense starting to be realised.... Finally!! Hehe! :P  ;D  ;D  ;)

PS: Let's hope no electronic bike control aids are being considered as part of that project..... Let's get back to a true man & machine marriage and something to truly be proud of as a sport! ;D  8)

Myst1cPrun3

Rumour is that if they go ahead they will be fueled by synthetic fuel, and have exhaust gas treatments so there would be no smoke, very little smell, and the likelihood is it'll sound different too.

So it's not entirely what you think.

They will be having electronic aids. That's a given

Hawk

January 14, 2020, 11:33:29 am #3 Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 11:39:10 am by Hawk
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 14, 2020, 10:22:16 amRumour is that if they go ahead they will be fueled by synthetic fuel, and have exhaust gas treatments so there would be no smoke, very little smell, and the likelihood is it'll sound different too.

So it's not entirely what you think.

They will be having electronic aids. That's a given

Why would they have electronic rider aids on a genuine race-bike that only brings a sport into disrepute?

Why do you think it's a given decision? There was no mention of that in the article.

Is there some kind of twisted thinking that you need rider aid electronics to make motorcycle racing safe or what going on here? Lol!

This would be the chance to bring Motorcycle racing back as a genuine sport and not just a ridiculous technological facade..... Even the riders have said they would rather ride genuine race-bikes rather than have electronics control a lot of the ride for them..... They want that excitement back.... So where's your problem?

doubledragoncc

I think they will have to have fuel injection so electronic engine management is a given for emission control but not necassarilly for rider aids?

DD

 
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Myst1cPrun3

They aren't going to take away rider aids.

Plain and simple.

Why introduce something that's more unsafe, slower, and reduce the competitiveness of the field, increasing gaps between machines.

Again look at the racing before rider aids, look at it after.

After is a notable improvement. And it's represented in the viewer numbers and ratings.

Any other view simply is skewed by a misguided notion that the past was better. When in fact, every single statistic piece of information, and review  says other wise.


As for the actual point of this thread, it's the engine. And the tech in them particularly.

Not the rest of the bikes or the current state of gp racing.
There's a thread for that as well as several other topics that have been dragged off their subject, so please use that, or make a new one.


As for he engines themselves, I don't think will be even comparable to older 2 strokes.

Petrol and Castrol r is not going to be used for emmisions reasons, specialist synthetic hydrogen biofuel and exhaust treatments to reduce emmisions I believe will substitute instead as a 2 in 1.

The other thing is, due to the nature of the tech required and the fuel, the engines will sound different to the traditional 2 strokes, and certainly smell different. I would hazard a guess that the old dirty blue smoke is going to be gone as well as no emmisions department wants that.

The only thing the new engines would have in common is the fact they have a name, and they make their power on 2 strokes instead of 4


Hawk

@Myst1cPrun3:
Your very good at making statements without any real facts.... Something your very quick to accuse others of doing.... Pretty hypocritical don't you think? But oh, wait! That'll be your version of common sense kicking in won't it, I do apologise! Lol! Hehe! ;D  ;)

The truth is we'll just have to wait and see what this project brings.... As I've stated above, I'm hoping it will be a chance to get the sport back to being a true sport and not a technological facade. :P

matty0l215

As with all of the "bring back 2 stroke" threads

Oh dear God, Please, No. 😁

Hawk

Quote from: matty0l215 on January 14, 2020, 04:30:59 pmAs with all of the "bring back 2 stroke" threads

Oh dear God, Please, No. 😁

They'll be coming back on the public roads too Matty..... We're coming back to getch-yaz all! I must've died and gone to heaven!! Hahaha! ;D  ;D

Manu

Quote from: Hawk on January 14, 2020, 11:33:29 amIs there some kind of twisted thinking that you need rider aid electronics to make motorcycle racing safe or what going on here? Lol!


Maybe you don't know, but traction control is not a safety element.

Hawk

Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 08:46:15 am
Quote from: Hawk on January 14, 2020, 11:33:29 amIs there some kind of twisted thinking that you need rider aid electronics to make motorcycle racing safe or what going on here? Lol!


Maybe you don't know, but traction control is not a safety element.


I'm sure many would dispute that Manu, depending on their point of view about TC.

But if TC isn't considered a safety element then there is no good reason in this modern safety obsessed era that TC couldn't be dropped so that the riders have to go back to using their throttle hand skills again is there?
It would probably mean big changes in engine unit power levels too but at least it would bring back that genuine rider machine marriage which is the way it should be in competitive Motorsports. ;)

Manu

Maybe someone may think that the TC or AW are safety elements but the reality is different. They are electronic aids for the rider. In the modern era of motogp engine power is such that it would be impossible to drive the bike. These aids were designed to control all that power in some way and not destroy the tires in the first lap.

So what would be the point of riding a bike that cannot be driven?

Docfumi

January 15, 2020, 10:26:15 am #12 Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 10:32:39 am by Docfumi
I think all the rider aids are hurting the sport a bit because now it's like watching arcade racing when we all want to see REAL racing. I mean think about it, as far as MotoGP goes we see a lot fewer high-sides and a lot less tank slappers which are a true thing of the past, and I feel these are good things but it makes racing look boring to the point I have to think why even have gears, oh wait! MotoE is here already. I want to see guys work the bike around the track for 26 laps, I want to see riders come from nine seconds back and win the race (not just Marquez). It was nice to see Fabio20 fight up the front but much like Zarco5 he could not get the job done and I started thinking this is really BS! Everyone is screaming that the ECU and other rider aids are killing the sport. I think it all comes down to the tyres and how good you set your bike up around them. Sure some bikes work better than others depending on the track and even the rider sometimes but most of it is that all bikes are on tyres and they only have two days to test them before the race, for F*ck sake every weekend a new compound. Again I call BULLSH*T! It's one thing to make a sport safe and another thing to castrate it.
I didn't lose the race, I ran out of laps.

Hawk

Quote from: Docfumi on January 15, 2020, 10:26:15 amI think all the rider aids are hurting the sport a bit because now it's like watching arcade racing when we all want to see REAL racing. I mean think about it, as far as MotoGP goes we see a lot fewer high-sides and a lot less tank slappers which are a true thing of the past, and I feel these are good things but it makes racing look boring to the point I have to think why even have gears, oh wait! MotoE is here already. I want to see guys work the bike around the track for 26 laps, I want to see riders come from nine seconds back and win the race (not just Marquez). It was nice to see Fabio20 fight up the front but much like Zarco5 he could not get the job done and I started thinking this is really BS! Everyone is screaming that the ECU and other rider aids are killing the sport. I think it all comes down to the tyres and how good you set your bike up around them. Sure some bikes work better than others depending on the track and even the rider sometimes but most of it is that all bikes are on tyres and they only have two days to test them before the race, for F*ck sake every weekend a new compound. Again I call BULLSH*T! It's one thing to make a sport safe and another thing to castrate it.

Well said Docfumi! Nice to see someone else here in the forum who also has the guts to voice their honest opinion on the technological state of MotoGP today.... Well said mate! ;) 8)

Hawk

Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 09:55:29 amMaybe someone may think that the TC or AW are safety elements but the reality is different. They are electronic aids for the rider. In the modern era of motogp engine power is such that it would be impossible to drive the bike. These aids were designed to control all that power in some way and not destroy the tires in the first lap.

So what would be the point of riding a bike that cannot be driven?

Manu. Back in the days of GP500, riders were already beginning to say that the bikes were getting to their maximum handling power for a rider, some including Rossi even went to the extent of having the BHP reduced on their GP500 bikes cause they could handle and ride faster without the extra power available.
My point being Manu, competitive racing isn't all about power and speed at all costs, and the sport shouldn't take the view that because the manufacturers can and want to increase the power of the bikes that they should have to implement riders aids so that the riders can handle that extra power. They should talk to the riders and ask them what power they can handle without using TC or AW and make that level of power the maximum power a GP bike can have.
The argument that we have to have TC or AW simply cause the present power output of the current MotoGP bikes is un-ridable without them is a nonsense argument.... This is where they have let the manufacturers have too much say in where MotoGP is going in the future. Dorna or FIM should've set a maximum relatively safe limit on power that the riders feel they are able to handle without electronic aids and made a ruling so that the manufacturers had to stick to that power as a maximum level for the category involved.

There is no reason for rider aids.... It just brings the sport into disrepute when competitors of any sport are using aids to help their performances...

As far as I'm concerned, using any electronic aids is just as bad as someone playing a game-competition over the internet and using an aim-bot to aid their ability to win. The point being is that it's cheating the whole point of what sport is all about, which is for a person to pitch his/her natural abilities against another competitors natural abilities; this is where the respect comes from for champions in sports, the fact that people/fans/spectators can truly admire and wonder at their abilities to do what they do to win. How can fans truly respect a sportsman's abilities when they are using electronic competitor aids.

I just cannot understand why anyone would think it's okay to use electronic competitor aids in sports.... It's a nonsense and just SO wrong and needs to stop in my opinion.