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April 08, 2020, 07:21:06 pm

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My opinion on Daddi's STK18 mod

Started by VSMaster, February 17, 2020, 09:43:44 am

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VSMaster

February 17, 2020, 09:43:44 am Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 10:52:23 pm by VSMaster
Hello everyone

I'm gonna tell you my thoughts about mod made or "reviwed" by Daddi using as base the awesome WSBK 17 mod.

1) Brake power:
   Braking with these bikes feels so weird. It doesn't feel like the bike is really stopping; you can brake at the right point but
   the bike still goes wide even if you use 16mm levarage. So you're gonna use a lot the rear brake in almost every turn

2) Bike physics/behavior:
   I don't know if they changed the bike physics, but the feeling overall is bad. It doesn't look like I'm riding a 1000cc
   superbike. Basically I can do anything without crashing just like the R6 cup.
   
3) Tyres:
   Maybe part of the problems in 2) are caused by the tyres. I can't find the sense about putting WSSP tyres on WSBK tyres. Just
   use the tyres they made for the mod, why using tyres from another category which doesn't fit at all

Last thing but this is more personal:
It makes me angry the fact that these guys picked up a very good base like the WSBK 17 and make a changelog where most of the things are just added to let us think "wow! good  job! If you ride both STK18 and WSBK17 you won't find that difference and that's make me angry. IMT spent a lot of time to make this mod and then someone else use it, change some number and say: "we changed much
things". Idk if you understand what I'm trying to say but it's my opinion and I'm not here to insult anyone.
The only thing I liked about the mod are the liveries.
   
Always on the edge

BOBR6 84

I'm only going to comment on the tyres..

World SBK Use slick tyres..

World STK and mainly all superstock bikes race with treaded race tyres.. so they use the same tyres as the 600cc bikes. Just a bigger size to fit the 1000cc..

But. Doesn't look like they changed the tyre size? So far I can see a huge gap between the rear tyre and the track like it's floating? Maybe that's why?

Although the same happens with the M2 bike if you adjust the ride hight etc.

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on February 17, 2020, 11:37:59 amI'm only going to comment on the tyres..

World SBK Use slick tyres..

World STK and mainly all superstock bikes race with treaded race tyres.. so they use the same tyres as the 600cc bikes. Just a bigger size to fit the 1000cc..

But. Doesn't look like they changed the tyre size? So far I can see a huge gap between the rear tyre and the track like it's floating? Maybe that's why?

Although the same happens with the M2 bike if you adjust the ride hight etc.

In an ideal world you'd just be able to port over SSP tyres and it be close to perfect.

But in gp bikes these SSP tyres melt after about one and a half laps. (My rear hit 200 degrees Celsius)

Overall the tyres on both this and the r6 cup bikes feel way off to me. But I don't have enough experience to comment really.

All I can say is pirelli supercorsas are supposed to be at 80celsius optimal...


GP bikes doesn't like direct tyre switches like the real world. What works on a sbk is too cold or not right for a SSP and vice versa.

As for the rest of what's said, shockingly I can agree with most of it. It is very hard to crash, and it handles the same to me as the r6 cup mod

Way to go fast is to whack 10 on the rebound damping and 0 on all the others.

Then off the brakes early, run it wide and mash the gas at mid turn to exit.

It's an odd sensation. Good for slides, and screen shots, but odd. Soft and hard at the same time

It'll be fun to race tho I imagine.

Myst1cPrun3

I would have perhaps said it a little different, especially considering experience in how mods can be.

But it's important to point out they did this with Blackhearts permission, so it's not just a random thing

BOBR6 84

Yeah my reply was more of a reply to vsmaster's 3rd point lol I really should use the quote utility 😁

Myst1cPrun3

Yeah got that :'D

Honestly I'd have said his reply is more physics based, as the tyre behaviour is the really big weak point in the mod.

This pack and the r6 cup pack are perhaps the most arcade handling bikes in gp bikes, which I feel is where criticism is coming from.


Hawk

I think you've all got to remember that the physics for these modern MotoGP Bike mods will be a total presumption on what the real bikes are like simply cause the real physics data for these bikes is not available at this time(maybe in 10 years or so it will be), especially tyre data(no chance).

So the physics your probably getting in the modern bikeMODS for GPBikes is more than likely based on what modders have experienced in Milestones MotoGP games rather than anything to do with reality; that is unless the modder is lucky enough to have a rider in the mod-team who has actual experience of riding one of the modern racing bikes?

Let's face it..... Who here has actual riding experience on a modern MotoGP racing bike? So, much of your procrastination's about what is right and wrong with the physics and tyres on one of these MOD bikes is purely your own personal opinion and not based on relevant facts at all. :) 

h106frp

Is the CoG very low? This can cause both the effect of the bike just gliding along on the brakes and lack of turn in due to not loading up the front suspension and tyre.

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Hawk on February 17, 2020, 03:35:21 pmI think you've all got to remember that the physics for these modern MotoGP Bike mods will be a total presumption on what the real bikes are like simply cause the real physics data for these bikes is not available at this time(maybe in 10 years or so it will be), especially tyre data(no chance).

So the physics your probably getting in the modern bikeMODS for GPBikes is more than likely based on what modders have experienced in Milestones MotoGP games rather than anything to do with reality; that is unless the modder is lucky enough to have a rider in the mod-team who has actual experience of riding one of the modern racing bikes?

Let's face it..... Who here has actual riding experience on a modern MotoGP racing bike? So, much of your procrastination's about what is right and wrong with the physics and tyres on one of these MOD bikes is purely your own personal opinion and not based on relevant facts at all. :) 

That's all well and good, but these are superstock machines and the manufacturer's data, as well as comprehensive rider reviews are readily available for them ;)


Quote from: h106frp on February 17, 2020, 04:17:09 pmIs the CoG very low? This can cause both the effect of the bike just gliding along on the brakes and lack of turn in due to not loading up the front suspension and tyre.

Not looked into the files so not sure

Blackheart

My permission is use the sbk mod
Quote from: Hawk on February 17, 2020, 03:35:21 pmI think you've all got to remember that the physics for these modern MotoGP Bike mods will be a total presumption on what the real bikes are like simply cause the real physics data for these bikes is not available at this time(maybe in 10 years or so it will be), especially tyre data(no chance).

So the physics your probably getting in the modern bikeMODS for GPBikes is more than likely based on what modders have experienced in Milestones MotoGP games rather than anything to do with reality; that is unless the modder is lucky enough to have a rider in the mod-team who has actual experience of riding one of the modern racing bikes?

Let's face it..... Who here has actual riding experience on a modern MotoGP racing bike? So, much of your procrastination's about what is right and wrong with the physics and tyres on one of these MOD bikes is purely your own personal opinion and not based on relevant facts at all. :) 

We had in IMT a real rider in the team (Andrea F. the phisics man behind the mods), dunno if this new team has experience irl but I gave the permission to create a different mod.

So nothing bad is happening here lol





VSMaster

Quote from: Hawk on February 17, 2020, 03:35:21 pmI think you've all got to remember that the physics for these modern MotoGP Bike mods will be a total presumption on what the real bikes are like simply cause the real physics data for these bikes is not available at this time(maybe in 10 years or so it will be), especially tyre data(no chance).

So the physics your probably getting in the modern bikeMODS for GPBikes is more than likely based on what modders have experienced in Milestones MotoGP games rather than anything to do with reality; that is unless the modder is lucky enough to have a rider in the mod-team who has actual experience of riding one of the modern racing bikes?

Let's face it..... Who here has actual riding experience on a modern MotoGP racing bike? So, much of your procrastination's about what is right and wrong with the physics and tyres on one of these MOD bikes is purely your own personal opinion and not based on relevant facts at all. :) 

I played milestone games before but never liked one, in terms of physics. My opinion base is not another game, it's my feeling and how a bike should react, for sure I'm not a professional rider so I can't tell how to make perfect physics but in this mod for me it's really messed up. Probably the fact that I compared those bikes to the actual best mod for gpbikes in this moment which for me it's the MotoGp19 by Manu. I can only imagine how a STK would be to ride.
I'm lucky to have a real professional rider (Klippie) as a beta tester, he helped me a lot developing the 800cc pack.
Anyway I won't change my opinion
Always on the edge

VSMaster

Another thing: I complained about the Ducati sound they added thinking they re improving the feeling. Why in the bloody hell you are going to put a tractor sound on it??
We were in the  same server and I had the possibility to directly report this to them. The reply I got? "change bike if you don't like it."
The funny thing it's that is obvious how bad the sound is.
This is disrespectful to me as I'm trying to give a feedback. Ridiculous
Always on the edge

Hawk

February 18, 2020, 10:35:31 am #12 Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 10:39:47 am by Hawk
Well guys.... If you've got a real race rider in your team to help with the feel and physics of your MODS then all well and good. No disrespect intended, I was just pointing out the fact that a real race rider is at least needed to test the physics and get them somewhat correct as possible especially for bikes where the real data is difficult to obtain if the bikeMOD is to react anything like real-life in the sim. ;)  :)  8)

@VSMaster: That's Italian's for you mate....... JUST JOKING GUYS! Hehe! ;D  ;D  :P  ;) 

It is indeed disrespectful to be fobbed-off like that when your giving genuine feedback to the developers..... I agree with you about the sounds of many of the mods. A lot sound like hairdryers or lawnmowers and even scalextric cars going round the track, but it is difficult to get good sounds with all the nuances involved in a realistic engine sound, but they could at least say they will try and work on it to better the sounds and thank you for your feedback, right? :)

VSMaster

Quote from: Hawk on February 18, 2020, 10:35:31 amWell guys.... If you've got a real race rider in your team to help with the feel and physics of your MODS then all well and good. No disrespect intended, I was just pointing out the fact that a real race rider is at least needed to test the physics and get them somewhat correct as possible especially for bikes where the real data is difficult to obtain if the bikeMOD is to react anything like real-life in the sim. ;)  :)  8)

@VSMaster: That's Italian's for you mate....... JUST JOKING GUYS! Hehe! ;D  ;D  :P  ;) 

It is indeed disrespectful to be fobbed-off like that when your giving genuine feedback to the developers..... I agree with you about the sounds of many of the mods. A lot sound like hairdryers or lawnmowers and even scalextric cars going round the track, but it is difficult to get good sounds with all the nuances involved in a realistic engine sound, but they could at least say they will try and work on it to better the sounds and thank you for your feedback, right? :)


I mean: the original sound it had was way better. And yes, making sounds it's very difficult, my mod will contain sounds from Manu's mod so...
I don't ask for perfect sounds because you won't have them until you go to record a sound in real life. For some it's possible, but even if you get the most realistic samples, with the available tools you can't create accurate engine sounds (I believe ).
Always on the edge

VSMaster

And about the tyres after reading MPR reply:
The tyres made for the WSBK are ONLY for the WSBK or 1000cc superbikes. The WSSP tyres are ONLY made for the WSSP or 600cc sportbikes. You CAN'T put WSSP tyres on WSBK, because it won't fit. After few laps I can't lean. Use the tyres of the original Mod, you can change the consumption value if you think it's very low. I think I found the motivation of using WSSP tyres, and it's the fact that in GpBikes nobody is gonna host a full length race. So you can use only the best tyres (SC1 [SOFT] in this case) for half length of the race, but they didn't like it so they changed in order to pickup other tyres.
I hope it's more clear now. Thanks also for your replies, helps to see from another point of view.
Always on the edge