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File Encryption Tool for Modders Please Piboso?

Started by Hawk, February 21, 2020, 02:56:45 PM

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doubledragoncc

Would this mean that we can not make skins as no access to pnt files?

DD
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matty0l215

No. The paints would be done the same way as they are now. You have the bike.pkz file and then a folder by the same name with a folder inside that called paints.
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doubledragoncc

I guessed that but that means the modder needs to supply a pnt file outside of the pkz file or not?

I dont know how to make a pnt file from scratch

DD
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matty0l215

Modders should be providing template files for all users.

Creation of .pnt files only needs the names to match as they are just another container file like the .plz files.
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doubledragoncc

BUT........each model has a certain layout for the psd or tga to make a skin and then you can convert to pnt, unfortunately there are many mods now that dont have any pnt files in paint folder so have to wait for one to make your own skin.

If encryption happens we will NEED to make sure a pnt file and not just templates is provide as people like me need tga to work with not psd.

Just pointing out it is very important mods will be released with at least one pnt file to ensure all can make a skin

Thanks for the answers matty

DD
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Tosteetos

I do not believe the reason why there isn't more modders is the fact that the mods are not encrypted.

 I wouldn't see a problem to this if there was full documentation as to how to create a decent mod I would be all for that. But being the fact that people learn to mod also by what other people have made I don't see how this can benefit the community. 

I am not a modder, but I can see how this can monopolize mod creating to just a few modders. 

I am not for this idea. Unless there is a comprehensive guide from Piboso. Otherwise say goodbye to what is left of this community if mods get encrypted.

 

javiliyors

Quote from: Tosteetos on February 28, 2020, 10:57:07 PMI do not believe the reason why there isn't more modders is the fact that the mods are not encrypted.

 I wouldn't see a problem to this if there was full documentation as to how to create a decent mod I would be all for that. But being the fact that people learn to mod also by what other people have made I don't see how this can benefit the community. 

I am not a modder, but I can see how this can monopolize mod creating to just a few modders. 

I am not for this idea. Unless there is a comprehensive guide from Piboso. Otherwise say goodbye to what is left of this community if mods get encrypted.

 

There is enough documentation to create mod, and yet there are people who are making mods and that have relied on other mods to create their own, in which I am included. I would not mind sharing documentation with other modders so that they create their mods, but use 3ds or other things, when all the work is yours, well fuck a lot. when you learn to do this it hurts to have your work stolen so that other people take the merits

Myst1cPrun3

February 29, 2020, 02:44:04 AM #22 Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 02:52:17 AM by Myst1cPrun3
If I may weigh in my 2 cents here...

After trying to mod a bike for the first time, I can say that there isn't enough documentation from piboso to make a mod. Simple and clear.

I have been relying on other bikes, the community, and community made resources to achieve what I've achieved in modding, which is very little.

Now if bikes get encrypted, you take away a valuable source of learning for new modders, and risk going back 10 years to when the bikes were the same just with altered edfs and sounds, or you risk preventing new modders starting entirely.

Ideally piboso would release official, full documentation on making a basic bike and track and putting them into the game. One that people can follow along with and use to understand the full process, before adapting the methods and adding their own spin on them for content etc.

Once that is done, only THEN do I believe that encryption of modders files can be considered.

As for me the survival and growth of GP Bikes is more important than someone using a file I made. Sure it's underhanded and not very nice but GP Bikes is getting competition in the Motorcycle Sim market, and it isn't getting any younger, so it needs all the help it can get.

I do also believe there is an issue with this fundamentally, as quite a lot of new mods use 3d models from milestones games, mine included. For that reason encrypting a bike so the files can't be stolen, and used without permission, when infact files from that very bike are stolen and used without permission anyway, I think that's not quite right. If it's got stolen files in it (not scratch built model and physics etc) then it shouldn't be encrypted is my stance. And yes, this also goes for 'my' mods as well.

But how does piboso police this? He simply can't. So I expect that there won't be any encryption, unless piboso trusts the modder and the source files.


But step 1 would be to release proper documentation and easy to follow tutorials on how to make tracks and bikes and get them into gp bikes. Then newer modders have the ability to come to a resource that's always available, and is easy to use.

Every other moddable sim has huge support from modders in this regard, and I think this is the part that prevents larger mod teams or more modders coming to go bikes.
That and the mod tools are far from perfect.

Come on pib it's 2020 why are the 3ds plugins for a 10 year old program


javiliyors

I agree, but if we all respected our work between modders this would not happen or we would have to encrypt anything

Hawk

There is no reason an example non-encrypted MODBike cannot be used to help those that wish to start modding, that would solve arguments that people want non-encrypted bike files to be able to learn modding. Simple solution really guys..... ::)

Piboso could easily police this if he wanted to the same way "Eagle Dynamics" police DCS World. Modders have to be registered with Eagle Dynamics; to do that you have to prove you have the ability to create mods to their standards(Not hard to do), only then will you become a registered supplier of mods for DCS World and only those modders can get a mod released for DCS World. Modding doesn't have to be a free for all. Free for all just gets you loads of amateur would-be mods that are well below standard quality which in itself hurts the main product.
Then on top of that is the problem that many pro-quality mods could very well want to use material that has intellectual property rights and conditions for using them in the modders work which would prevent using those files if they were not encrypted.

So guys, it's a case of do we want mods that are very good(pro) standard, or do we want to continue to have mods that are a free for all, which as we've seen, attracts unscrupulous modders who tend to steal the hard work of others?

All I'm saying is that an encryption tool should be made available for modders who feel they need it for their work so it's not stolen or bastardised in the future....
If Piboso would like to continue allowing open modding then I'm fine with that too, but just provide an encryption tool for those modders that want to have use of it, that's all I'm saying here really guys!  ;)  8)

@DD: No need to worry about the paint files mate..... The modder can create a paint-kit in whatever format you require.
Just a query DD: Why do you have to have the paint file format in .TGA? Surely .PSD layered files are so much better and easier to paint with, and you don't have to have PS to use them, there is GIMP(the Photoshop clone) that can use .PSD files and it's free as I'm sure you know?  :)

javiliyors

Quote from: Hawk on February 29, 2020, 12:04:02 PMThere is no reason an example non-encrypted MODBike cannot be used to help those that wish to start modding, that would solve arguments that people want non-encrypted bike files to be able to learn modding. Simple solution really guys..... ::)

Piboso could easily police this if he wanted to the same way "Eagle Dynamics" police DCS World. Modders have to be registered with Eagle Dynamics; to do that you have to prove you have the ability to create mods to their standards(Not hard to do), only then will you become a registered supplier of mods for DCS World and only those modders can get a mod released for DCS World. Modding doesn't have to be a free for all. Free for all just gets you loads of amateur would-be mods that are well below standard quality which in itself hurts the main product.
Then on top of that is the problem that many pro-quality mods could very well want to use material that has intellectual property rights and conditions for using them in the modders work which would prevent using those files if they were not encrypted.

So guys, it's a case of do we want mods that are very good(pro) standard, or do we want to continue to have mods that are a free for all, which as we've seen, attracts unscrupulous modders who tend to steal the hard work of others?

All I'm saying is that an encryption tool should be made available for modders who feel they need it for their work so it's not stolen or bastardised in the future....
If Piboso would like to continue allowing open modding then I'm fine with that too, but just provide an encryption tool for those modders that want to have use of it, that's all I'm saying here really guys!  ;)  8)

@DD: No need to worry about the paint files mate..... The modder can create a paint-kit in whatever format you require.
Just a query DD: Why do you have to have the paint file format in .TGA? Surely .PSD layered files are so much better and easier to paint with, and you don't have to have PS to use them, there is GIMP(the Photoshop clone) that can use .PSD files and it's free as I'm sure you know?  :)

+1000

VSMaster

February 29, 2020, 05:44:22 PM #27 Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 06:03:29 PM by VSMaster
I created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste
Always on the edge

Hawk

Quote from: VSMaster on February 29, 2020, 05:44:22 PMI created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste

Well there we go..... A good example non-encrypted version for learning to mod would solve that solution and therefore no barrier for an encryption tool for those that want to use it..... Both sides of the debate happy now...... So, how's about an encryption tool Piboso? ;D  ;)

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Hawk on February 29, 2020, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: VSMaster on February 29, 2020, 05:44:22 PMI created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste

Well there we go..... A good example non-encrypted version for learning to mod would solve that solution and therefore no barrier for an encryption tool for those that want to use it..... Both sides of the debate happy now...... So, how's about an encryption tool Piboso? ;D  ;)

It's also a milestone ripped model ;) like most