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The perfect gamepad

Started by Chris_Beeves, December 15, 2020, 10:51:10 AM

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Chris_Beeves

Hello everybody!

I have been thinking lately about what the holdbacks of using a gamepad when driving motorcycle games.

Of course there are advanced solutions like my Force feedback M302 controller for Direct Steer (countersteering mode), or DD's HS controllers for normal steering. Those can not really be compared to a gamepad neither in price nor experience.

It is quite a big step between all those right now.

Maggikk made a great little bolt-on force feedback unit for the gamepad which looks really promising, but I'm not sure how the progress is right now.

What would the features be of your perfect gamepad?

- Better resolution in the steering axis?
- Gyro functionality? (I have been experimenting with this some.. Could be something!)
- Better brake controls?

Tell me your dreams!

I had to try..

Vini

December 15, 2020, 02:18:29 PM #1 Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 08:34:23 PM by Vini
Ok here it goes...
- X360 pad design
- High resistance triggers and sticks
- Force-input on the left trigger when pressed all the way (setting to switch between force and position mode)
- If possible FFB system on the left stick
- Two additional triggers for rear brake and clutch (probably best located on the backside or as replacements for RB/LB)
- Maybe pressure sensitive buttons like on the old PS2 pad
- Gyro and IR tracking sensors
(- Flywheel for gyro resistance :D :D)
- HiFi rumble (like PS5 pad)
- Bigger sticks with better grip
- Grippy rubber surfaces on important places

HornetMaX

Quality gimbals under sticks, like the ones you have on good RC transmitters.

I just tried a joypad (GPX) in an accurate RC Heli sim software: the sticks are so crap that it's barely usable.
I'm pondering buying an RC transmitter to then buy an heli (again): sure as hell if I get it I'll give it a try in GPB.

Chris_Beeves

Not sure I understand what you mean by Gimbal. Would that be the potentiometer?

IE Better resolution steering stick?
I had to try..

h106frp

Trouble with gamepads is that the sticks are so short that the deflection at the thumb is very small. Risers are cheap and help a bit.

HornetMaX

The gimbal is the mechanism that allows the stick to move along the two axes.
In joypad gimbals are usually terrible and the sensors (potentiometers) often even worse.

Stick length: I'm not sure a joypad stick with extensions/raisers (I have them too and I agree they help) is that much shorter than an RC radio with short sticks. Maybe a bit, but not enough to explain the difference in precisions (centering, full excursion over the two axes, sensor noise) and the feeling (most radio have adjustable stick tension, many both in terms of spings and friction).


HornetMaX

I'm a spoiled brat, just went for a Radiomaster TX16S: it's way too much for an heli beginner and it's way way too much for a sim usage but:
  • It has excellent gimbals + hall sensors.
  • It has an open source firmware (OpenTX): this thing is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G !!
  • It has a multi-module: it can work with many different receivers (Futaba, Spektrum and a ton of others).
  • It is damn good (according to a tons of reviews)
  • It's only ~125 euros if ordered in China. That's 1/3rd of what I paid years ago for a much more limited Furba 8FG

If I decide to sell it in a few months (which could well happen), likely I'll lose only a few quids.

I was looking for  aused Spektrum (or FrSky orwhatever with decent quality and easy to hook-up to a simulator), after checking what is on sale here, really no point in not buying a better, brand new radio for less :)

HornetMaX

That won't probably work very well for a few reasons (no triggers, no usual buttons, may need a battery etc), but it shows that a joypad with quality gimbals can be built.

https://www.frsky-rc.com/product/taranis-x-lite-s/
https://www.frsky-rc.com/product/taranis-x-lite-pro/

They even have a 6 axes accelerometer system.
You can connect to pc via usb or buy a "receiver" that plugs into usb.

Vini

How is the resistance on those model airplane sticks compared to gamepads?

HornetMaX

Quote from: Vini on January 23, 2021, 07:06:25 PMHow is the resistance on those model airplane sticks compared to gamepads?
Higher. On some radios (not sure about the x-lite ones) you can tweak both the recall springs (put softer/harder ones) and the friction (tightening a piece of metal that rubs when the stick is moved).

I'm still waiting for the battery for my radio (a few more days) but I can tell you one thing: the heli sim I have (and, in fact, any heli sim) is unusable with the joypad due to how imprecise the sticks are. Even hovering is extremely hard.

Some pics of the internals: https://rotorbuilds.com/review/12507

Chris_Beeves

These gimbals are sold as replacement parts, but they are quite expensive. I wonder if one could do something similar oneself..
I had to try..

HornetMaX

Quote from: Chris_Beeves on January 24, 2021, 03:02:56 PMThese gimbals are sold as replacement parts, but they are quite expensive. I wonder if one could do something similar oneself..
Hemm ... Jumpet T-Lite

55E, with plenty of stuff not needed for a joypad (I mean an lcd screen, bunch of switches and, of course, a real Tx module and firmware). Haven't read a lot about it but sticks & gimbals seems ok.

Chris_Beeves

Printed a weird looking extender from Thingiverse. While far from perfect, it is certainly an improvement in precision.
I'll probably do something on my own instead of this. It felt a little awkward with the thumb cramped in like that..
I had to try..