GP Bikes beta8

[Hawk]

@Blacky: Does this rider jump-off bug occur on the default bikes too? Personally not seen it happen with the default bikes as yet.

But looks to me like:

• The fin on the bike fairing is touching the ground?
• Also the rider knee is touching the kerb

Either one would indicate to me a bug that needs sorting at some stage, but I'm just wondering if it is more of an issue down to #1 causing the rider to jump-off then maybe adjusting the bike collision mesh(if possible by modders?) would help alleviate the problem if only happening on MODBikes?

Hawk.

[Vini]

We've actually been over this plenty of times already, Hawk.
We just need an answer from PiBoSo.


Manu tried fixing the bug on his MotoGP mod but it is a fundamental one that PiBoSo has to fix.

[Blackheart]

@Blacky: Does this rider jump-off bug occur on the default bikes too? Personally not seen it happen with the default bikes as yet.

But looks to me like:

• The fin on the bike fairing is touching the ground?
• Also the rider knee is touching the kerb

Either one would indicate to me a bug that needs sorting at some stage, but I'm just wondering if it is more of an issue down to #1 causing the rider to jump-off then maybe adjusting the bike collision mesh(if possible by modders?) would help alleviate the problem if only happening on MODBikes?

Hawk.

No the fin dont touch the ground it was the first thing I thought 

The bug imo is an error with the collisions, if you look closely (in my and vin vids) the rider's knee enters into the curbs (this is the bug)

[Vini]

the rider's knee enters into the curbs (this is the bug)

I'm pretty sure it's the knee colliding with the bike geometry (like Hawk first said some weeks ago) instead of the rider colliding with the track.
If the knee/rider could enter (clip into) the curb, the bug would probably be fixed but the nicer solution would definitely be to allow the rider to clip into the bike (and keeping the sliding knee animation) or to automatically reduce the rider lean so that he has enough space (more difficult coding-wise, though).

[Blackheart]

the rider's knee enters into the curbs (this is the bug)

I'm pretty sure it's the knee colliding with the bike geometry (like Hawk first said some weeks ago) instead of the rider colliding with the track.

Perhaps it is difficult to understand, but I hope that will be corrected or at least advise the modders how to avoid it. 

[Warlock]

Why should one improvement be delayed significantelly when the delay it would cause for other (harder) fixes is negligible?

The problem is.... those improvements you mention have been prioritary for years now, there is always something to improve on physics.
But we have to think about the whole project. A core fix will bring many new customers (money for GPB and Piboso)
Proper championships, full servers , 30 or more riders on the grid.  (all complaining about physics bugs of course, we always have something to complain about)

This way we could use GPB as it should be, while waiting for those small fixes and , why not, some eye candy

The way you say = waiting,...waiting,...waiting, getting bored, losing fans of the project (many got lost during these years), empty servers, no money.....then: "ohh, a new beta is out!! great!! lets try it,.........damn , core at 2nd lap ,......pfffffffff  " ....waiting another year......

So, for me its clear as glass, even if i really hate some of those bugs like rider fall, bike front problems, wobbles, crappy replays, etc.

[r1rossi]

Out of no where i cannot even play.

Freezes everytime i load into a session and crashes my computer completely.

I have unistalled completely 2 times.

Tried only the original bikes and it works . However not fully. I cannot use the HUD , or it crashes and i cannot use ESC to go to menu, it does NOTHING when i press it .


Any ideas?

[Vini]

The way you say = waiting,...waiting,...waiting, getting bored, losing fans of the project (many got lost during these years), empty servers, no money.....then: "ohh, a new beta is out!! great!! lets try it,.........damn

I am in that situation at the moment.
.....But because of wobbles making the bikes unridable or at least not fun (over a full race distance).
Physics problems can make you stop playing the game just like netcode problems can, that is why we have to go a bit deeper to figure out which fix is reasonable and which fix should wait.
That is what I was trying to do with this:

Why should one improvement be delayed significantelly when the delay it would cause for other (harder) fixes is negligible?

[Stout Johnson]

@Vin: You don't seem to get it, do you? First of all: You act like someone here tries to prevent your bug getting fixed, which is not the case! You were calling me out, after I showed my relief about the fact that netcode supposedly moved up on Piboso's priority list. Some rather strange behaviour from a GPB-vet like you. You acted as if it was incomprehensible that someone could be glad it should be finally fixed. So I took my time to explain my reasoning. And all I was saying that, no matter what, netcode should be number one prio.

Apart from the fact I felt the urgence to express my disbelief about you calling me out over feeling relieved that the netcode will probably finally be tackled, I do not feel much urgence to discuss this any further at this point -  because this discussion does not make much sense anyhow. If you read Piboso's comment and really try to comprehend it, Piboso basically said that he has no plans on releasing a new beta without netcode issue improvements. That does not mean, that your bug might not be fixed as welll in next beta (if in fact it such a quick fix as you claim). But you can't expect Piboso to just release a new beta to fix 'your' issue. If he would, there would be coming others expecting the same and Piboso would get caught devoting time to other issues again before netcode is fixed.

Like Warlock and myself have stated, there will in all likeliness never be a state where the simulation will be generally accepted as being perfect. So there would always be some issue that would probably look like a quick fix and would prevent Piboso from finally tackling that netcode bugger which should not be in there in the first place. It is a shame it has been neglected so long. Up to now, Piboso has always preferred the rather quick fixes to certain issues over the probably agonizing search for that goddamm netcode bugger. So I would really love to see him look for that without any distractions.

I am pretty sure you will still argue that... but it is because you are lost in your problem. If you are able to leave that behind and look at the big picture, you might understand. In the meantime, stay off the tracks where the knee bug is prevalent and live with the wobbles .... like we all do. Looking at it realistically, it is a minor concession.

[HornetMaX]

At the moment it is the reason for the bike understeering in sloped-down corners.

Are you sure it is actually doing that, though? Have you calculated the maximum possible corner speed for a given corner and checked to see if GPB is simulating it correctly?
It still looks like the bike is understeering but if the corner speed (and lean angle) is correct, then it would be a visual bug and the physics would be correct.

No vin, it's a bug. And a terribly ugly one for a sim like GPB. I mean, if a Milestone game was doing that, we would be all here pissing on it (video posted by janaucarre here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=3129.msg49169#msg49169, look the second half in particular):

https://www.youtube.com/v/72Rb3fCtbbc

Still, core crashes and online stability #1 is no brainer. Everything else, personaly, I don't really care in what order is done.

[Napalm Nick]

Yeh but I see Vins point he is saying it may just be visual and this vid supports that. If the physics was behaving like that the bike wouldn't go round a track?

Everyone will have different priorities I guess. Vin probably falls off a lot because he rides good apex lines so he hates it but also rarely races online, Stout wants online fun No.1. Personally I hate the wobble so much it is sucking the fun out of even riding so whats the point of having online? Having said that as far as serious issues go I think netcode is the one. Hopefully the other bits will come with it.

[Blackheart]

I see like vin, is the worst bug after the core, for the people that used touch the curbs for turn fast (like me and vin) becomes really hard ride in a completely different way.

For example in the last race, at Spa I've never touched a curb, even if I won, I have not ride in the way that I like. 

[JamoZ]

I see like vin, is the worst bug after the core, for the people that used touch the curbs for turn fast (like me and vin) becomes really hard ride in a completely different way.

For example in the last race, at Spa I've never touched a curb, even if I won, I have not ride in the way that I like. 

Like i said a long long time ago...You have 2 category riders in GP bikes. People who are in the top 3 every race, always putting in laptimes 2 seconds quicker then the rest of the field. These guys are prone to finding more physics bugs due to the fact that they are pushing the bike and physics engine to 110%. And the people who are off the pace by 5 seconds, fall 7 times in a 3 lap race and still enjoy just playing and riding around. They won`t encounter the same bugs, and if they even do they won`t care as much as the former guys just because they have fun just "playing" the game.

My point is, it always has and always will be some sort of war of "my priorities are more important then yours". I have been enjoying playing GP bikes again, only to encounter yet again a new game breaking bug for me, namely the rider just randomly falling off. In my opinion this is just as worse as the core.exe bug. But for this one i actually have hope of it ever being fixed. I was having no core problems the past week of playing, but this new bug has made me decide to shelf the game again. After all these years with the primary "focus" on physics, completely ignoring the online part, this is just unacceptable.

[Hawk]

Why should one improvement be delayed significantelly when the delay it would cause for other (harder) fixes is negligible?

The problem is.... those improvements you mention have been prioritary for years now, there is always something to improve on physics.
But we have to think about the whole project. A core fix will bring many new customers (money for GPB and Piboso)
Proper championships, full servers , 30 or more riders on the grid.  (all complaining about physics bugs of course, we always have something to complain about)

This way we could use GPB as it should be, while waiting for those small fixes and , why not, some eye candy

The way you say = waiting,...waiting,...waiting, getting bored, losing fans of the project (many got lost during these years), empty servers, no money.....then: "ohh, a new beta is out!! great!! lets try it,.........damn , core at 2nd lap ,......pfffffffff  " ....waiting another year......

So, for me its clear as glass, even if i really hate some of those bugs like rider fall, bike front problems, wobbles, crappy replays, etc.

+1

Well said Warlock! 

Hawk.

[Hawk]

the rider's knee enters into the curbs (this is the bug)

I'm pretty sure it's the knee colliding with the bike geometry (like Hawk first said some weeks ago) instead of the rider colliding with the track.
If the knee/rider could enter (clip into) the curb, the bug would probably be fixed but the nicer solution would definitely be to allow the rider to clip into the bike (and keeping the sliding knee animation) or to automatically reduce the rider lean so that he has enough space (more difficult coding-wise, though).

The rider jump-off bug only started when Piboso implemented the knee slider contact and reaction to the knee colliding with the track. So yes and from the evidence provided in video by Vin and Blacky, the knee collision routine is the routine at fault for this bug in my opinion.

Hawk.