Author Topic: Corner cut?  (Read 233 times)

Ryanoh4

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Corner cut?
« on: September 03, 2017, 12:41:00 AM »
Just been flying round misano on the first person server and had to stand it up at the chicane, I continued my lap and it was counted on the stats page why is there no corner cut penalty!? If it's possible can that time I set be deleted  ::)

Hawk

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 04:33:38 AM »
Hi Ryanoh4.

The corner cut penalty markers unfortunately cannot define between a rider actually cutting a corner and a bike that's crashed and slide over that penalty marker; so it was decided to just not put penalty markers on tracks at those points because it is grossly unfair on a rider in a race who crashes, which costs approx. 8-10 seconds to recover anyway, to then receive on top of that another 5-10 second corner cut penalty. It was decided that any corner cutting in races would be reviewed in the race replay and penalised by the race promoters for an overall fairer decision. :)
It's also considered gentlemanly conduct that if at the time where you have a rider very close behind you at the time you gain any such advantage that you allow them to pass you straight after the incident to be fair.


HornetMaX

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 12:59:42 PM »
A better solution would probably be to have the checkpoints in the track, but they are only used by GPB during free practice, quali and warmup, not in races.
This was lap records cannot be abused cutting.

Hawk

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 01:44:25 PM »
A better solution would probably be to have the checkpoints in the track, but they are only used by GPB during free practice, quali and warmup, not in races.
This was lap records cannot be abused cutting.

Not really sure what you mean there Max?

HornetMaX

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 07:24:19 PM »
A better solution would probably be to have the checkpoints in the track, but they are only used by GPB during free practice, quali and warmup, not in races.
This was lap records cannot be abused cutting.

Not really sure what you mean there Max?
Track creators define checkpoints on the track, plenty of them.
The GPB checks the checkpoint during practice, quali and warmup sessions, but not during races.

This means that if you cut a corner during practice/quali/warm-up the lap does not count.
But if you cut during a race nothing happens.



Hawk

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:42:52 PM »
A better solution would probably be to have the checkpoints in the track, but they are only used by GPB during free practice, quali and warmup, not in races.
This was lap records cannot be abused cutting.

Not really sure what you mean there Max?
Track creators define checkpoints on the track, plenty of them.
The GPB checks the checkpoint during practice, quali and warmup sessions, but not during races.

This means that if you cut a corner during practice/quali/warm-up the lap does not count.
But if you cut during a race nothing happens.

Highlighted sentence above is what threw me Max.....

The checkpoint markers used to be set so that they cover any area where a corner-cut was likely(not on the actual track surface itself) and give a relevant penalty for cutting that corner.
We found that if you just limit the checkpoint marker to the track surface limits and a bike missed that marker by crashing around it then the server would have a fit and miss laps during a race, so we started only using them for corner cut penalties.

But now I personally think the checkpoint markers are really irrelevant because they are more trouble than any function they were supposed to solve..... Much simpler to review any track cutting from the replay after the race and hand out penalties that way, at least until the checkpoint markers work more reliably without affecting server performance and/or wrongly penalising a rider just because they crash through a checkpoint marker that was positioned there to penalise cutting the corner.

Don't know if Piboso has worked on this issue since we stopped putting them into tracks, but I certainly have not heard about any work or improvements to the checkpoint marker system in GPBikes since we last reported this issue? :)

HornetMaX

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 10:18:24 PM »
I think we requested to avoid in-race penalties due to missing a checkpoint, not sure if it has been implemented or not.
But I do think that a track with no checkpoints at all makes no sense. I know some don't care about hotlapping, but some do, so ...

Hawk

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 07:33:46 AM »
I think we requested to avoid in-race penalties due to missing a checkpoint, not sure if it has been implemented or not.
But I do think that a track with no checkpoints at all makes no sense. I know some don't care about hotlapping, but some do, so ...

Are you sure your not mistaking the checkpoint markers for the sector timing markers? Surely it's the sector timing markers that define track sector times and ultimately the whole lap time that is used for hotlapping?

Just to make clear that the sector timing markers are always included in all tracks.  :)

HornetMaX

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 07:43:58 AM »
I think we requested to avoid in-race penalties due to missing a checkpoint, not sure if it has been implemented or not.
But I do think that a track with no checkpoints at all makes no sense. I know some don't care about hotlapping, but some do, so ...

Are you sure your not mistaking the checkpoint markers for the sector timing markers? Surely it's the sector timing markers that define track sector times and ultimately the whole lap time that is used for hotlapping?

Just to make clear that the sector timing markers are always included in all tracks.  :)
No I'm not, I do mean checkpoints.

If there's no checkpoint on a track, one can run into Ryanoh4's problem (cut a corner, get an incredible time registered on the stats server/hotlap pages).
If there are checkpoints (and they are checked during races) one can run into the problem you reported (too big penaly during a race).

So what I'm saying is: put checkpoints in tracks, but GPB won't "check" them during races. It avoids both problems.

[EDIT] was proposed 2 years ago: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2556.msg37475#msg37475
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 07:47:21 AM by HornetMaX »

Hawk

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 09:25:52 AM »
I think we requested to avoid in-race penalties due to missing a checkpoint, not sure if it has been implemented or not.
But I do think that a track with no checkpoints at all makes no sense. I know some don't care about hotlapping, but some do, so ...

Are you sure your not mistaking the checkpoint markers for the sector timing markers? Surely it's the sector timing markers that define track sector times and ultimately the whole lap time that is used for hotlapping?

Just to make clear that the sector timing markers are always included in all tracks.  :)
No I'm not, I do mean checkpoints.

If there's no checkpoint on a track, one can run into Ryanoh4's problem (cut a corner, get an incredible time registered on the stats server/hotlap pages).
If there are checkpoints (and they are checked during races) one can run into the problem you reported (too big penaly during a race).

So what I'm saying is: put checkpoints in tracks, but GPB won't "check" them during races. It avoids both problems.

[EDIT] was proposed 2 years ago: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2556.msg37475#msg37475

So I presume from that you are talking about something that Piboso needs to fix rather than what is possible now? Because what your stating there is not possible with the checkpoint markers as they currently work in tracks.
If that's what your saying then I understand where your coming from now, but I was misunderstanding you in thinking that you were stating a solution to this problem that wasn't actually possible right now.
If all that is correct then yes I'd agree with you on that Max. :)

I don't mean any disrespect to the GPB hotlapper fans, but honestly hotlapping doesn't mean anything at all in GPB unless you can consistently hotlap at that pace the majority of the time..... I've yet to see a GPB rider that can consistently maintain that pace during a race without crashing. So hotlaps are in effect a false rider pace because in reality riders don't ride at a pace where they are very likely to crash, which hotlappers do in GPB simply because they know they won't get hurt badly if they do crash.

What I'd like to see implemented is a dedicated hotlap session. In that session you'd have to do at least 3 laps without falling and then the average of those three laps are taken as your single lap hotlap time rating and not as it is now where you go hell for leather and just hope that you don't crash during your one fast lucky lap. It's a very arcady hotlap system at the moment in my opinion. ;)

HornetMaX

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Re: Corner cut?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 09:37:23 AM »
So I presume from that you are talking about something that Piboso needs to fix rather than what is possible now?
Obviously, yes.

I don't mean any disrespect to the GPB hotlapper fans, but honestly hotlapping doesn't mean anything at all in GPB unless you can consistently hotlap at that pace the majority of the time..... I've yet to see a GPB rider that can consistently maintain that pace during a race without crashing. So hotlaps are in effect a false rider pace because in reality riders don't ride at a pace where they are very likely to crash, which hotlappers do in GPB simply because they know they won't get hurt badly if they do crash.

What I'd like to see implemented is a dedicated hotlap session. In that session you'd have to do at least 3 laps without falling and then the average of those three laps are taken as your single lap hotlap time rating and not as it is now where you go hell for leather and just hope that you don't crash during your one fast lucky lap. It's a very arcady hotlap system at the moment in my opinion. ;)
Hotlaps event were very popular when they were organised (and there were points granted for bets time over multiple laps, if I recall correctly, not far from what you're asking).

At any rate, there's an easy solution to accommodate checkpoints for both races and hotlaping, so no matter our opinion on one or the other, there's no reason not to go for both.