[BIKE] KTM RC8R *PHYSICS UPDATE*

[JamoZ]

This is what is possible with this bike, powerslides anyone? 

*HD
http://www.youtube.com/v/B-4Num4y1fk&feature=youtu.be

[Vini]

Yes, the big smokey ones are pretty fun.
The challange for me is holding the slide as long as possible (starting it right after the apex).

[rodney007]

Damn nice! you guys are good at laying down the rubber.

[BOBR6 84]

I like the bike. Very enjoyable.. I agree with jamoZ its a bit too easy to use! Im not saying it should be hard for hard sake but At the moment I can full throttle everywhere and brake as hard as I want without fear. My only concern is it may become boring.
Feeling from the tyres is great! Nice to see that increasing the damper helped stop the wobbles..  its refreshing to not have to worry about the bikes front end all the time.. All in all a fantastic mod and it suits the stk class very well I think! Thanks 

[rodney007]

I like the bike. Very enjoyable.. I agree with jamoZ its a bit too easy to use! Im not saying it should be hard for hard sake but At the moment I can full throttle everywhere and brake as hard as I want without fear. My only concern is it may become boring.
Feeling from the tyres is great! Nice to see that increasing the damper helped stop the wobbles..  its refreshing to not have to worry about the bikes front end all the time.. All in all a fantastic mod and it suits the stk class very well I think! Thanks 

I agree, I am currently working on some changes and am having good results.

Try the SC H tire and tell me what you think compared to the soft rear in relation to how forgiving it is and if its any better.

[BOBR6 84]

good stuff! i will try that tonight when i get home.. il try and make a little video because i struggle to find the right words to give good feedback.. its deffinately on a good path though nice work!

[HornetMaX]

Hmm, the feeling of a flexing chassis and it's effect on the handling of the bike will be very hard to implement in a game.

That's what I was thinking.

As we can only feel so much compared to real as well. Certain handling traits given through the bike in real life
we unfortunately will never be able to simulate (or could we :-)?).

MaX lets get technical :-)!

On demand, let's do it. But I'll keep it understandable 

Actually it's not that hard to simulate some chassis flexibility: simplifying a lot, it's not that different from the rear swing arm + its suspension. Allow the swing arm to move horizontally and put a (damped) spring on its side, and you have an horizontally flexible swing arm. Same goes for the fork (pivoting around it's anchor point, hence using torsional springs).

There are two questions though:

- One, is it worth it ? I.e. does flexibility have a reasonable impact ? In real life, it does. It even have impact on wobble, weave etc.

- And two, would Piboso be able to gather some real data about flexibility ? As I think he won't go for a "put a value and try" approach on that.

MaX.

[Vini]

You were right, the bike is a little bit too easy to handle. I didn't notice it before but when trail braking you can do 100% brake way too long.
I alread said that the bikes needs to wheelie more in my opinion.

But the general feeling, the powersliding and the lack of wobbles is good and not too easy.


EDIT: New video
http://www.youtube.com/v/n2O5C1v37qg

[rodney007]

You were right, the bike is a little bit too easy to handle. I didn't notice it before but when trail braking you can do 100% brake way too long.
I alread said that the bikes needs to wheelie more in my opinion.

But the general feeling, the power-sliding and the lack of wobbles is good and not too easy.

I have spent all yesterday tuning things and did around 100 laps. This is what I have changed:

*Lowered overall grip (front and rear)
- Bike is easier to initially power-slide (fun but not ideal for long races) but requires less effort to do so. Front tire
grip is significantly reduced especially when braking tipping into a corner.

*Braking
-Significantly increased the likely hood of loosing the front end when braking in lean. In a straight line a bike is more likely to have a stoppie effect, however in lean is easier to brake loose due to the weight coming off the centre of the tire. This is a realistic effect
and I have crashed many times in real-life from this 
i.e be careful braking when turning and ease off going into corner

*Front end stability
-Significantly reduced wobble further more!, I did not see/feel any even at very low speeds

*Weight balance and torque
-Bike is pulls up easier at low and medium speeds, there is a fine line between realistic and going back to what 5B is like so we must take care or we will be doing wheelies at 300kms! and we don't want that! (me anyway)

*Tire wear
-Fixed front end wear, front tires now wear realistically and react to heat. Harder braking tipping into a corner on brakes repeatedly  will cause them to overheat thus wearing them faster.

*Engine horsepower and torque
-Bike has higher low and mid-range torque, horse power peaks and drops off as of a real V-Twin engine in contrast to an Inline GP style engine. Watch the throttle at lower RPMS.

Things I need to work on further:

Chassis flex
*I tried different things but to be honest this is too much at this stage to simulate let alone actual feel it as a computer game. Realistically suspension changes to simulate this is what I can think of (at this stage).
Are you guys thinking in corner or in a straight line or going in or coming out, on brakes or coming off brakes?

High speed traction levels
*Due to the changes on 5B it is hard to define traction at higher speeds, I think this is a combination of aero force and chain simulation?

I am still doing some slight refinements however will upload the changes in around 12 hours for you guys to try.

[Vini]

Hmm, so sliding will be even easier.... I think this aspect of the physics was perfect.
The other changes sound good.

[BOBR6 84]

chassis flex.. no idea about that stuff  at a guess chassis flex comes into play more when the bike is fully leant over? when the suspension is limited to what it can do on its side i guess chassis flex absorbes some of the forces? il be honest... no idea what im talking about here haha

[rodney007]

chassis flex.. no idea about that stuff  at a guess chassis flex comes into play more when the bike is fully leant over? when the suspension is limited to what it can do on its side i guess chassis flex absorbes some of the forces? il be honest... no idea what im talking about here haha

I am a firm believer of not trying to implement something for the sake of implementing it. Though if someone can find how to simulate this and it is beneficial then I am all for it

Hmm, so sliding will be even easier.... I think this aspect of the physics was perfect.
The other changes sound good.

I understand however, there was a bit too much grip, now there is slightly less so requires more precise throttle control. Longer slides are possible now but mean it is easier to push it to far. There is a good feel for where the tire is working best just before it breaks loose.

With any decently powered bike too much throttle will always spin the rear if you are not careful. I still need to get this more defined at thigh speed.

I am confident you guys should enjoy these changes.

[JamoZ]

Roll that stuff out, so i have something to do before i go to bed...i`m bored

[rodney007]

Roll that stuff out, so i have something to do before i go to bed...i`m bored

Sorry dude am at work :-( not long left tho...

[JamoZ]

Bedtime now, i`ll just cry myself to sleep