[BIKE] KTM RC8R *PHYSICS UPDATE*

[rodney007]

Quick first impressions ;

The bike feels alot more alive overall, it wobbles here and there but in a very realistic and predictable manner and also the engine has that little bit more bite it needed to make it more challenging.
The problem with the front wasn`t really a issue for me as i`ve always braked in the way Rodney explained, so i didn`t really need to adapt. However i think the angle/limit on which the front wheel blocks and goes away during braking might be increased just a tiny bit, maybe 5% but if this doesn`t happen it wouldn`t be a big issue.

The only problem i`ve ran into in the 10 laps i was doing on Laguna Seca, was that the rear wheel would slide away from under me during accelerating in 2/3rd gear in a strange way. Like i had grease or oil on my back wheel, or a very worn tire. Could this be due to not getting enough heat into the tires to start gripping? Because i wasn`t really giving it my 100% and more just paying attention to the bike behaviour overall.

Other than that, i would say this bike is damn close to being one of the best mods we have so far for GP bikes

Thanks for your help JamoZ its very beneficial, tell me, can you run the same test again and when it happens check the tire wear and temp. I am sure this is the case and durability may need to be increased, brake lean lockup point easy to change too.

I must say its so enjoyable to ride like this and excited to where we can take it.

[Stout Johnson]

Bike is fun to slide, but you ride with the feeling of an arcade game...

+1

I must say i'm not in favor of fake data to build the physics. Build them by feel is a quite subjetive matter.

Exactly, 100% my opinion! (guess that's why we are teammates ) still, testing does not hurt...

[JamoZ]

Now it`s quite the opposite to be honest. Without traction control this bike now feels like one of the old 2 strokes where it highsides you without warning and with the slighest touch of the throttle. I haven`t seen anything strange with tire temps Rodney, i just thought that the default tires wore slightly quicker then normal. Right now the moment between sliding and crashing is very abrupt and quite the opposite of the easy feeling of the previous physics. Keep in mind that i test this bike without anti wheelie system & traction control, so my feedback is based on that.

[BOBR6 84]

i agree with that stout/warlock.. although i think its good that people are trying things out.. i think some positives will come from this for sure  as you may know i keep banging on about adjustable steering dampers lol so im intrested along those lines...

id be carefull not to spend too much time doing it though rodney because nobody knows when beta6 will appear.. or what it will be like!

this ktm might be completely different with beta6.. just a heads up really, i know its none of my buisness..

[BozoCRO]

I think it's got a bit too much power now. It does 340 km/h on Mugello with succesfull braking

[rodney007]

Ok guys thanks for that.

Engine:
Engine has been rolled back and top speed corrected

Rear tire:
Rear tires has been rolled back to previous version

Others:
Weight and braking left the same

Download updated.

[Vini]

I had the same impression of v1.2.
Smooth slides were very hard and the feel for the rear wheel was worse. Also, once sliding the engine would rev to the redline as if the bike got on oil. It's good that you changed the rear to the old version.

I liked the increased power.

I haven't done that much testing but for me the feel for the front was not so good. With the 990 there is a point where you can feel the front wobble and lock up but with the 1.2 KTM the bike just falls over without any warning.


I will test v1.3 now.

[girlracerTracey]

Now it`s quite the opposite to be honest. Without traction control this bike now feels like one of the old 2 strokes where it highsides you without warning and with the slighest touch of the throttle. I haven`t seen anything strange with tire temps Rodney, i just thought that the default tires wore slightly quicker then normal. Right now the moment between sliding and crashing is very abrupt and quite the opposite of the easy feeling of the previous physics. Keep in mind that i test this bike without anti wheelie system & traction control, so my feedback is based on that.

+1

I have not tested any of the physics versions with tcs or wheelie control turned on. Everything is turned off. Most definitely. I wanted to feel everything "raw" to try to gauge what was going on with the physics.

For me this whole exercise has proved itself to be an extremely worthwhile and interesting experiment. The earlier physics versions were too arcade for me. I found them great fun to ride but a little bit too close to the periphery of "arcade land" for my liking if I am absolutely honest. Which is not I think what anyone here on gpbikes wants. I certainly do not anyway. But no with the latest physics version 1.2 and with everything tcs-wise turned off I am now beginning to feel a really interesting depth and character to Rodney's physics model.

For me that gpbikes "rubber band" sensation of the rear wheel being held in place by "invisible forces" when you apply the power exiting a curve &/or deliberately attempt to rear wheel steer on the power has now gone. So for me at least Rodney's experiment has been a success. You can now apply the throttle to slide the rear like in real life. The rear tyre imo now responds to throttle input more like a rear tyre does in real life on the racetrack. Rear wheel steering apart I do quite like the overall physics model as well although like others I am experiencing a few "low-sides" as I have always been a front-end style of rider who brakes progressively into bends and if possible up to the apex of bends. It does not feel natural to me to finish my braking whilst upright. But that's just me I guess..so for me front end is a bit "suspect".

Where you take this Rodney I'm really not quite sure. I don't know about the numbers but I do know this feels, for me at least as a "first blush" , more like a real life racing motorcycle should in terms of rear tyre behaviour on the power. Having said that I do fully understand and appreciate what PiBoSo, Max and others are saying about the numbers needing to tie-in. But for me the bumble bee seems to fly quite well..at least as far as an interesting experiment is concerned. It's your baby Rodney and it's fun cuddling it..

grT



       

[JamoZ]

Ok, just a small idea here...what about the 1.2 rear tire with the 1.3 engine? I think the slightly slippier rear tire & more powerfull engine of 1.2 together were a bit too much. But i liked the higher speed sliding of the 1.2 more. I feel we`re really close to the perfect physics for this bike here, it`s just a matter of things falling into place now..

Also, the braking/wheeling/wobbling etc are perfect now imo, for me there is no need to tune any of those further to be honest...

[Vini]

I have to disagree, in 1.3 there is too little wheelie and the front is still too unstable under braking. The rear wheel/slides on the other side are perfect.

[JamoZ]

I feel different, no problems during braking, but slides are a bit back on the arcade side again...wheelies/engine power might be upped a really small bit, but not anything as in 1.2

[girlracerTracey]

P.S. what was interesting for me was that I sort of replicated a rear wheel slide I experienced in real life on the exit to Riches at Snetterton on a worn rear tyre. I had the back end step out into quite a long power-slide and perhaps more through luck than good judgement I held the power on until the bike straightened itself out. Without much fuss or bother. Combination of a hot day and a worn/wearing rear tyre on my brother's race bike. I managed a very similar slide today on the exit to Riches at Snetterton on the RC8R on physics 1.2 on gpbikes.. I have never been able to do that previously on any bike in the gpbikes' line-up. So thumbs up from me..

Downloading version 1.3 now..

[Vini]

Ok, yeah, braking in 1.3 is ok, now that I have practiced a bit more. There could still be a little bit more feedback.

Wheelie definitely needs to be increased.


But I will keep my position on the slides. I find them good and not too arcady in 1.3.

[girlracerTracey]

Under versions 1.2 and 1.3 rear wheel is sliding too much on turn-in..much too much for me at least.

I'm not sure what you can do about that but it doesn't feel right to me..

Otherwise I sort of agree with Vin I think..

grT

[Vini]

Under versions 1.2 and 1.3 rear wheel is sliding too much on turn-in..much too much for me at least.

I don't really understand what you mean by that.
And besides, I think all versions except 1.2 have (almost) the same rear wheel (only the tyre wear was changed between them).