Speaking in terms of Realism it would be nice to adjust the TCS (and maybe Antiwheelie) When Out on Track. Switchable Map is nice but i Miss the ingame TCS Feature to equal a degrading Tyre.
Feature is present on all modern MotoGP and Superbike Bikes so it has to be in a Motorcycle Sim. Furthermore it is present in One of the competitor Games (which are Miles away simulating a decent response of the Bike compared to GPB!!).
Was already asked somewhere ;) That would be very useful, especially when you start on a wet track ;)
Yes, that's a very valid one.
Which other real-time controls should we have (I mean compared to a real racing bike) ? Anti-wheeling ? Engine brake ?
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Yes, that's a very valid one.
Which other real-time controls should we have (I mean compared to a real racing bike) ? Anti-wheeling ? Engine brake ?
MaX.
Anti wheeling would be very nice! Because on some tracks I need sometimes 0 or 1 for some corners ;)
Quote from: Arvoss on February 09, 2014, 11:38:08 AM
Anti wheeling would be very nice! Because on some tracks I need sometimes 0 or 1 for some corners ;)
Uh, that wouldn't be a valid reason, otherwise you may want to have real time suspensions settings too.
MaX.
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 08:56:13 AM
ingame TCS Feature to equal a degrading Tyre.
I second that! That is a MUST-have.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Which other real-time controls should we have (I mean compared to a real racing bike) ? Anti-wheeling ? Engine brake ?
yes and yes... they are not as important as TC but still needed. For example, if you change mapping of the engine it often requires adjustments to engine brake too...
Quote from: Stout Johnson on February 09, 2014, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Which other real-time controls should we have (I mean compared to a real racing bike) ? Anti-wheeling ? Engine brake ?
yes and yes... they are not as important as TC but still needed. For example, if you change mapping of the engine it often requires adjustments to engine brake too...
But the question is, what do they have on a real racing bike in terms of onboard adjustments ?
TCS for sure. But the rest ?
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on February 09, 2014, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Which other real-time controls should we have (I mean compared to a real racing bike) ? Anti-wheeling ? Engine brake ?
yes and yes... they are not as important as TC but still needed. For example, if you change mapping of the engine it often requires adjustments to engine brake too...
But the question is, what do they have on a real racing bike in terms of onboard adjustments ?
TCS for sure. But the rest ?
MaX.
I'm sure I heard on TV that they have brake adjustment and some kind of engine management onboard?
TCS, Map switch, AntiWheelie, Engine Breaking all adjustable on modern Sportbikes (MotoGP, Superbike) ;)
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 05:05:08 PM
TCS, Map switch, AntiWheelie, Engine Breaking all adjustable on modern Sportbikes (MotoGP, Superbike) ;)
So be it. Into wishlist :)
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 09, 2014, 05:10:05 PM
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 05:05:08 PM
TCS, Map switch, AntiWheelie, Engine Breaking all adjustable on modern Sportbikes (MotoGP, Superbike) ;)
So be it. Into wishlist :)
MaX.
We will need controllers with 52 buttons lol
No no:
Button x (TCS, Anti wheeling, engine)
Button y: change settings of selected option in button x
That would be the easiest way if you understand what I mean ;)
TCS - To balancing tyre wear and suit track surface changes, getting the best forward movement inbetween slip and grip
AntiWheelie - speaks for itself (normally not adjusted while racing)
Engine Breaking . do not need adjustments normally until
Map Switch - is pressed (to reduce fuel consumption or using less agressive map at the half of the race to reduce tyre wear....).
;D
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 05:23:59 PM
TCS - To balancing tyre wear and suit track surface changes, getting the best forward movement inbetween slip and grip
AntiWheelie - speaks for itself (normally not adjusted while racing)
Engine Breaking . do not need adjustments normally until
Map Switch - is pressed (to reduce fuel consumption or using less agressive map at the half of the race to reduce tyre wear....).
;D
So TCS is the only one that have to be adjustable while on the bike ?
MaX.
You can adjust all of them at a time (if you have time to do that ;) )
As an example:
Pannigale Streetbike:
QuoteSports ABS and The Ducati Traction Control (DTS) systems are just the beginning here - through the dash you can also fully adjust your suspension settings (presumably only on S models) via the Ducati Electronic Suspension (DES) system, as well as your Ducati Quick Shift (DQS) setup, choose your engine mapping and power output characteristics, and even adjust the amount of engine braking on a trailing throttle with Engine Braking Control (EBC). The engine braking system makes use of the Panigale's fly-by-wire motorized throttle system to feed a little air into the throttle bodies under deceleration, reducing compression braking and effectively making the 1199 feel even more like a freewheeling race bike on corner entry. Oh, and that's in addition to the slipper clutch fitted to the brand new gearbox.
All these settings are manageable individually, or you can trust the Ducati engineers by going with one of three preset riding modes - Race, Sport and Wet. As usual, the key metric here is the power curve - in Wet mode you get 120 horsepower and a gentle throttle map, in Sport mode you get the full 195 horsepower but with a softish throttle response, and race mode goes all out with full power on a hair trigger, quarter turn throttle.
courtesy of: http://www.gizmag.com/ducati-1199-panigale-review/20587/
But can you do it while riding ? Because sometime you can only change them while stopped (most likely, for safety reasons).
MaX.
TCS and Map switch wile riding.
on race bikes maybe AW and EB also.
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 07:24:01 PM
TCS and Map switch wile riding.
on race bikes maybe AW and EB also.
as switching the mapping often requires change of engine brake settings I am pretty sure you can do it while riding on modern race bikes... otherwise it wouldn't really make sense.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on February 09, 2014, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 07:24:01 PM
TCS and Map switch wile riding.
on race bikes maybe AW and EB also.
as switching the mapping often requires change of engine brake settings I am pretty sure you can do it while riding on modern race bikes... otherwise it wouldn't really make sense.
Hmm not sure, maybe the engine brake setting is tied to the map, so it changes automatically.
I'm tempted to say TCS is the only one we have absolutely no doubt at all.
Maybe Piboso knows more, I'll let it to him.
MaX.
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 07:24:01 PM
TCS and Map switch wile riding.
on race bikes maybe AW and EB also.
TCS, engine, AW and EB settings are most likely "packed" in a single, pre-programmed, mapping switch, though.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 09, 2014, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: C21 on February 09, 2014, 07:24:01 PM
TCS and Map switch wile riding.
on race bikes maybe AW and EB also.
TCS, engine, AW and EB settings are most likely "packed" in a single, pre-programmed, mapping switch, though.
Well that could be true. Maybe anyone knows someone who can confirm this?
Piboso, it should be possible to arrange pre-defined electronics packages in garage right? So in free-practice every rider could test different settings, allot them to ca. 3-5 pre-defined spots (mapping/TCS/EB/AW) and switch thru them sequentially while riding - pretty much like we can atm with engine mappings, right? This info could be saved in the set-up.... or as a seperate file? or for each bike? dunno, which makes most sense...
QuoteTCS, engine, AW and EB settings are most likely "packed" in a single, pre-programmed, mapping switch, though.
Sorry to disagree.
On modern Street Sportbikes (like Yamaha R1 since 2012) you have: TCS (6 steps) and Map switch (3 steps) which are acting indipendently. No "prepack".
So it is on modern Racebike.
QuoteOn the switchblock of the left side handlebar there is now a large TCS (Traction Control System) rocker switch that lets you select one of six levels of electronic intervention for when the rear tyre breaks loose. On the other handlebar, a mode button allows you to choose one of three throttle maps: a quickfire setting for track-day heroics, a standard mode similar to the response of previous R1s, and a slow-mo setting that could be useful when riding on slippery road surfaces. Both the TCS and the throttle settings can be adjusted on the move and, unlike the Euro sportsbikes that first introduced such race-bred electronic riding aids to road- going motorcycles, the access to the adjustments is quick, simple and intuitive.
Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bikes/6958286/New-R1-a-better-bike-for-the-buck
Edit:
Interesting view on the insight of a MotoGP rider on a RCV213:
EB is adjustable!Quote"During the race I exhausted all the options on my bike with electronics," Rea said speaking on Sunday night. "I was playing a lot with traction control settings, also mapping changes and engine brake changes. To be honest, it got to the point where I was just confused and I had to just open the throttle and do my best, pick the line. It was just one of those things that a race can teach you, when the tire drops down, when the fuel load drops down, how you need to work with the bike. With more time I can understand but for a huge part of that race I was a little bit confused whether I was doing the right thing with the buttons or the wrong thing."
Rea was asked exactly what he was looking for, more traction control or less, to help him get to the end of the race. He answered that the confusion was caused by the differences between the bikes and the tires in the World Superbike and MotoGP series. "The [traction control] strategies work completely differently," Rea explained. "In World Superbike during the race, normally I would flip the traction control to let the electronics have more control. In effect, basically you're trying to save the tire at the end of the race. Here it works the opposite way, where you have to reduce the traction control and let the bike spin more, because the engine is slowing the bike down too much," Rea said.
The problem arose about halfway through the race, Rea explained. "Around half race distance, I took a lot of traction control off the bike, but then I was sliding around too much, so I put it back on. Then I was like 'Shit, I'm going no faster, so just take it off and spin.' In the end, we finished the race on quite a low setting. That worked OK, but it's the opposite way from Superbike and it was hard to get it into my head."
Reporters wanted to know whether it was the number of options which had confused Rea, or just the fact that the two series required diametrically opposed approaches. "For sure you have more options on a GP bike," Rea replied, "but I was confused because I knew which way I should go, but the lap time difference wasn't a lot, and I didn't understand is this actually better or is it making it worse? Instead of pinpointing my lines, I was in a rhythm, but to get closer to Bautista I was trying a lot of different things which meant my race was very inconsistent. Sometimes I would miss the apex, or run wide, but it's because I'm trying different things with my style to learn."
Rea went on to explain that the range of electronics strategies were virtually unlimited in MotoGP, and that it needed a lot of experience to understand what works best as the race progresses. "Electronically, in MotoGP, the possibilities are endless," Rea said. "With all the wet sessions, I haven't been able to fully understand exactly what happens when the tire really goes down. In the qualifying sessions we had in Misano and Aragon, you don't have time to put in 20 laps and try to understand what the traction control is doing, because you're fighting for a grid position. Brno was like learning to ride a bicycle again, so I don't classify that as a test. The one-and-a-half days we did here, that was when I practiced riding a MotoGP bike, but still for me, I've a lot to learn. "
"But the main differences are the possibilities of the electronics. In Superbikes I feel that with those electronics, the rider can make a much bigger difference. You can see for example on my bike, where our strategies aren't so sophisticated in Superbike I can still be quite competitive. But here the electronics is a huge part because we have such a strong engine that you need good electronics to be able to finish the race with still grip left on the tire. This was the hardest thing for me to understand, you can't teach this without doing race distance. For sure if I was to do this again, I would spend a lot more time on old tires and putting more and deeper thought into the electronics and understanding that."
Rea was asked if would like to have the MotoGP electronics on his Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR World Superbike machine. Unsurprisingly, Rea's was enthusiastic about the idea. "Yes, I think I can learn a lot from how this is working," he said. "You know, HRC is a very smart company and the strategies they have inside the ECUs, it's cutting edge, it's something you can't just buy. We need to learn exactly how they're doing this. When you have an ECU or you buy an electronics system, you buy it in a box, but it's only as good as the little guy in the factory or the ECU programmers put inside, and that's where we really suffer in Superbikes. So we need a much more sophisticated system. On the plus side, what I think, and I've told my engineers, is I think the Superbike has a much easier drive off the corner. It feels like when I open the throttle on this bike not much happens directly, where on the Superbike I feel a lot more connection between the throttle and the rear tire. There's pluses and minuses, but for sure we can learn a lot from this paddock."
Was the difference in the throttle connection feeling down to the extra horsepower of the MotoGP bikes or the differences between the spec Pirelli tires used in World Superbikes and the MotoGP Bridgestones, Rea was asked. "For sure we have less horsepower in Superbikes, but we can use a lot more horsepower at less percentage of the throttle. I think that's a lot because we don't rely on the electronics so much, because you have to keep the tire here, so."
nice info C21! but maybe there are already systems that allow "packed" adjustments? well we don't know yet - so as for now, we should have mapping, TC, EB, AW all be adjusteable speperately I think
I wonder how all these separate controls are laid out on the handlebars ...
In-game, it may make sense to do as suggested by Arvoss: one button to cycle through the different things we can change (TCS, AW, EB, Map) and one button to cycle through the different settings (e.g. TCS = 0, 1, 2, 3).
MaX.
Don´t wonder ;D
It will look like this:
(http://s30.postimg.org/97s3ijg8d/r1000rr_WSBK.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/97s3ijg8d/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/9kjzvmrxp/rcv_2012.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9kjzvmrxp/)
;D
So on the honda it looks like one "func" button and two buttons for "up/down". Fair enough for me. Maybe we can avoid the 3rd button as described above (1 func button, 1 "cycle" button), our pads are already full :)
MaX.