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October 21, 2019, 05:54:09 pm

Gpbikes videos ;)

Started by BOBR6 84, May 09, 2014, 11:30:25 pm

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Eagle

October 08, 2015, 09:39:36 pm #525 Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 09:41:46 pm by Wh1t34Gl3(SAS)
QuoteIf I understand you correctly I totally agree..... The GPB sound system does need advancing in my opinion to allow for more advanced bike/engine sound simulations, but also would be interesting to see what the current sound system is capable of with a greater range of samples to work from? Maybe it would be adequate if we knew exactly what we were doing to put many sound samples together to sync and work correctly? :)
I know Max did some great work in finding out what a lot of the functions were for and also his sound utility tool.


I played on a server with JJS two or three hours ago. On my build, i changed the fz6 sounds to TDU's ZX-10r (basically I44S). It really sounded great. It could be better with changes on the system side and with new samples, but it was amazing already. I believe it's near of the actual engine sound managing system's limits.

For the 2 strokes, i think there's no other alternative than superposing multiple samples (2 stroke whining on a side, and crankshaft sound on the other (varying with the cylinders number)), as it might not render really good if they were mixed..

What i'm gonna try now, is to completely superpose both tracks (with each volumes varying depending on the layer used), and see if i can get near to the kind of sounds in the H2 750 video. It will also permit to test resources costs (ram & CPU?)

As for Max's tool, yes, it REALLY helps. At the beginning, i was using the notepad to manage the scl (with great results, i used a calculator in parallel, which permitted me to precisely set up the transitions/rpms etc..), but what i made in 3 hours, i can do it in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great tool, and permits to focus on new and/or better ways to set up sounds instead of focusing on the syntax.. After, i have lost a bit of precision, since i don't calculate anymore, but use the graph/sound simulation to build the sound..

BOBR6 84

Keep up the good work mate!

Iv been playing dirt rally here and there.. The sound of the group B cars alone is enough to keep me going back for more.. Good sounds make the experience 10x better!


HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 08, 2015, 09:39:36 pm
It will also permit to test resources costs (ram & CPU?)

I don't think this will be a problem anytime soon.
Just to give you an idea, SFML (the library I use to play the sounds in my tool) has a limit of 256 max simultaneous sounds and I guess that this can be achieved without any big timpact on the overall workload.

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 08, 2015, 09:39:36 pm
As for Max's tool, yes, it REALLY helps. At the beginning, i was using the notepad to manage the scl (with great results, i used a calculator in parallel, which permitted me to precisely set up the transitions/rpms etc..), but what i made in 3 hours, i can do it in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great tool, and permits to focus on new and/or better ways to set up sounds instead of focusing on the syntax.. After, i have lost a bit of precision, since i don't calculate anymore, but use the graph/sound simulation to build the sound..

That was the intention when I created it :) Glad it works fine !

Concernig 2-strokes: in MXB Piboso once posted a video of a 2 strokes. It didn't made it into the last beta (and I don't know if it will make it into the next beta) because apperently Piboso didn't like the sound, but if I recall correctly, it sounded pretty OK to me :)

https://www.youtube.com/v/nxR8H6CHNIE

MaX.

C21

Sorry but that sounds like a lawnmower, not like a decent MX 2stroke bike.
I would not use the sound either..
# Member of the CAWS Racing Team #


HornetMaX

It's a 2s MX bike, by definition the closest thing to a lawnmower that could exist on earth :)

To me it's far better than any mod sound I've heard in GPB (2 strokes or 4 strokes).

MaX.

BOBR6 84

look at the smoke though  ;D ;D 8)

Eagle

>Max

It might not cost a lot alone, but something to keep in mind is that there's not only sounds that are loaded/used (also, they are constantly varying). :)

What is also interesting me in this experiment is how much charges this "technique" is adding.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 09, 2015, 06:25:28 pm
>Max

It might not cost a lot alone, but something to keep in mind is that there's not only sounds that are loaded/used (also, they are constantly varying). :)

For any PC not 10yrs old, this is a tiny load.

I don't know if having 20 or 40 samples for an engine will make the sound any better (I doubt), but if that's the case, do not hesitate in doing so.
The impact on the overall performance should be hardly visible.

The amount of computations GPB does for physics is likely much more than what it does for sound.
BTW, I don't know if there's an hard limit on the number of samples in a .scl file.

MaX.

Eagle

Well, for 2 strokes the two distinct audios are varying depending on the audio listener location, and throttle intensity, so, i guess managing both separately would help simulating it better.

And for the config, not everyone can have an i13.GTX19293/80GB RAM etc... :p

HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 09, 2015, 08:36:56 pm
Well, for 2 strokes the two distinct audios are varying depending on the audio listener location, and throttle intensity, so, i guess managing both separately would help simulating it better.

And for the config, not everyone can have an i13.GTX19293/80GB RAM etc... :p

Listener position is beyond what you can do, it's managed by GPB. Same for throttle intensity.

For the config, you're under the impression that you need a top PC to run a lot of audio samples. That's not that case. Really.

Make a complex .scl with many samples and we can try it out on different configs: I'd be surprised if we can see the impact, even on modest configs.Could be an interesting test.

That said, I don't think that the number of samples is what is limiting us now.

MaX.

BOBR6 84


Vini

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 09, 2015, 09:08:29 pmListener position is beyond what you can do, it's managed by GPB. Same for throttle intensity.

This may be one reason why two strokes don't sound that realistic in GP Bikes.
Throttle intensity greatly influences the sound characteristics of a two stroke (especially when the power valves are opening)


edit: very nice riding bob!
btw, which tc setting do you use?

Eagle

October 10, 2015, 12:09:11 am #537 Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 12:13:02 am by Wh1t34Gl3(SAS)
QuoteListener position is beyond what you can do, it's managed by GPB. Same for throttle intensity.


I know. And that's one of the reasons a "decent" simulation of 2 strokes sounds is actually impossible on GPB, even if the sounds are well made.

QuoteFor the config, you're under the impression that you need a top PC to run a lot of audio samples. That's not that case. Really.


I don't say that it costs a lot, i focus on the fact that this charge (whatever weight it has) is added to the rest of the resources loaded/interacted with. I already have difficulties running gpbikes (mods included), which is not extremely optimized. Any negative variance in the framerate will make a certain difference in the gameplay.. Plus, i don't have the worst config, so i think about some people that run it with lower ones (near to minimum). Sounds a bit of an extreme reasoning, but we are never enough careful. :p

QuoteMake a complex .scl with many samples and we can try it out on different configs: I'd be surprised if we can see the impact, even on modest configs.Could be an interesting test.


Gonna try when i have time to dedicate to GPB (don't know when and how long..). Could be funny with like 70 samples playing randomly. :lol:

QuoteThat said, I don't think that the number of samples is what is limiting us now.


I agree, there's problems coming from other locations.. Also, i wasn't referencing this as one, but something to keep an eye on, at least the time it's being tested.

In any ways, waiting for beta 7 and new contents/features coming with it (community's included). ;D


Edit:

>BOBR6 84

Great video. ;D :thumbsUp:

What is this bike ?

Hawk

Quote from: vin97 on October 09, 2015, 11:55:12 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 09, 2015, 09:08:29 pmListener position is beyond what you can do, it's managed by GPB. Same for throttle intensity.

This may be one reason why two strokes don't sound that realistic in GP Bikes.
Throttle intensity greatly influences the sound characteristics of a two stroke (especially when the power valves are opening)


edit: very nice riding bob!
btw, which tc setting do you use?


Love the video Vin! Now that is what I want to hear from a 2 stroke GP500 bike in GPB....... Also notice the differences in sounds as the bike is coming towards you and away from you; I know GPB has this ability, but it will be interesting to see if we can get the correct effect with the 2 stroke engine sound....... Also the engine sound from the on-board rider 1st person view will sound different than when hearing the sound from a track-side spectator point of view. We need this difference in sounds too. Another reason I think the whole sound system needs redesigning, because at this time the on-board sound is same as off-board(Track-side) sound.

Hawk

HornetMaX

Quote from: vin97 on October 09, 2015, 11:55:12 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 09, 2015, 09:08:29 pmListener position is beyond what you can do, it's managed by GPB. Same for throttle intensity.

This may be one reason why two strokes don't sound that realistic in GP Bikes.


Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 12:09:11 am
I know. And that's one of the reasons a "decent" simulation of 2 strokes sounds is actually impossible on GPB, even if the sounds are well made.


Just to be sure (I'm sure Wh1t34Gl3 knows that) , it's not that GPB does not manage throttle intensity at all: it does.
Today, depending on throttle position, it will mix the OFF throttle samples with the ON throttle samples. So some sort of dependency on throttle is already there.

Side note: in MaxSCL I try to do the same, but as Piboso didn't want to disclose how exactly he does that (which is understandable) I just did something out of my mind: it sounds close to me but there's no gurantee it is actually the same as GPB (most likely it's not).

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 10, 2015, 05:28:36 am
Love the video Vin! Now that is what I want to hear from a 2 stroke GP500 bike in GPB....... Also notice the differences in sounds as the bike is coming towards you and away from you; I know GPB has this ability, but it will be interesting to see if we can get the correct effect with the 2 stroke engine sound.......

If it can do it for 4s, it can do it for 2s. The effect you talk about (Doppler) applies to all sound sources/types.

I just did a quick test (replay, put a free roam cam on finish line at victoria and listen a 990 storm on the straight) and I have to say that the doppler seems pretty light to me.
So questions: I know openAL can handle Doppler, so if GPB is using it, maybe there's some tuning of the doppler parameters ...

@Hawk: BTW if you do the same test you'll clearly hear that GPB has "stereo/3D" sound. You'll hear it better with headphones, as often.

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 10, 2015, 05:28:36 am
Also the engine sound from the on-board rider 1st person view will sound different than when hearing the sound from a track-side spectator point of view. We need this difference in sounds too.


This is already the case. Easy check: get on the bike in neutral, keep it at 10K rpm and switch between 3rd person view and rider view(s). You'll hear a difference.

To be honest though, the difference seems to be too small. Sound for Rider pov should include the effect of a helmet and (eventually) earplugs. Sound for 3d person view should not (or optionally, it could) and sounds from external views (cameras) should not.

Hmm a few questions here ... I'll make a dedicated topic.

MaX.