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October 21, 2019, 09:14:04 pm

News:

GP Bikes beta16b available! :)


Gpbikes videos ;)

Started by BOBR6 84, May 09, 2014, 11:30:25 pm

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Napalm Nick

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on October 09, 2015, 11:17:22 pm
some practice laps..

https://www.youtube.com/v/4e-IDZEoNl0


Good video Bob very helpful and a good attempt at nearly reclaiming your thread  ;)

So I have questions about it:
1. How come you do more than one lap without random wobbles, backflips and crashes? I know I've said this about your style before but you seem much smoother than is possible, for mortals, in this game. You have super sticky tyres or super smooth skills? ???

2. How come you are able to accelerate so hard before/at the apex without the bike starting to understeer / opening out the corner. A classic example is at the corner at 4.05. I wouldn't dream of putting the power down that hard that early when already so close to the outside edge of the kerb. Usually I am at full buttock-clench with eyes shut at this point. It seems so not-doable it looks odd! Although this corner highlights it the best, you are doing it on most corners and was the thing that struck me the most almost immediately when watching your vid. Its almost like you are using the power to tighten the corner.  This could be the fundamental reason (maybe for a lot of us?) why the average lap pace is so off the fast boys and girls times.

3. Um...How come you are going to tell me its with a default setup too? lol.

Anyway good vid Bob gives me something to try to develop my er...skills.  :-[   ;)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

h106frp

It is noticeable that applying power tightens the turn and open throttle lets the bike drift wide- noticed this on a lot of turns and maybe its more apparent in first person view.

I do wish the helmet overlay followed the horizon tilt, always looks odd to me otherwise.

Napalm Nick

I would kinda expect this to happen but it rarely does for me in-game. Understeers unless the rear is sliding. So next practice I will man-up a bit and give it a big squirt as soon as I sense the corner is lost! Maybe chasing stability is ruining my cornering setups?

As for having the helmet tilt the same as the horizon that would look very odd to me  ;D

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

h106frp

Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 10, 2015, 09:43:19 am
I would kinda expect this to happen but it rarely does for me in-game. Understeers unless the rear is sliding. So next practice I will man-up a bit and give it a big squirt as soon as I sense the corner is lost! Maybe chasing stability is ruining my cornering setups?

As for having the helmet tilt the same as the horizon that would look very odd to me  ;D


Maybe a powered monitor tilt is the way forward instead ;) ;D

Hawk

It would've been interesting to see Bobs game control sliders in the MAXHUD, because I have a feeling he is using his rear brake to control the bike through the corners enabling him to tighten the corner as you noticed?

Not sure but this is what I feel he could be doing.  ;)

I know some GPB riders do currently use the rear brake to pull the bike tighter through corners..... This is something that I also feel needs sorting in the physics, because although applying rear brake does effect a bike in this way I don't think it effects the bike in real life as much as it seems to in GPB?

Hawk.

Napalm Nick

October 10, 2015, 10:39:25 am #545 Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 02:31:19 pm by Napalm Nick
Quote from: h106frp on October 10, 2015, 09:57:27 am

Maybe a powered monitor tilt is the way forward instead ;) ;D


hahaaha H!

You, have engineers blood  ;)

@Hawk - the way I see it is while using the front brake trailing a corner it causes the bike to sit up (as it does IRL) so the corner has to open-up. Using the rear doesn't so much tighten the turn directly but prevents the bike having to sit up under braking, therefore allowing the same lean and hence, maximum turn, but at the cost of less braking power and increased risk of losing the rear on those 4 strokes engine brakers.
IRL using the rear also causes the weight shift and subsequent sitting-up, but not as much (as the front) but yes, certainly more than it does in game.
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

Kerazo

using the rear break is key to go fast in gpb

Hawk

Quote from: kerazxo on October 10, 2015, 01:06:23 pm
using the rear break is key to go fast in gpb


Just out of interest - How much faster do you think it is compared to a rider just using front brakes alone?  :)

I only use my front brake right now because I use a joystick for control and have not got a handy trigger(analogue) for good rear brake usage.  :(

If it's a lot faster I would be very tempted to seek another form of controller.  :)

Hawk.

Eagle

QuoteJust to be sure (I'm sure Wh1t34Gl3 knows that) , it's not that GPB does not manage throttle intensity at all: it does.
Today, depending on throttle position, it will mix the OFF throttle samples with the ON throttle samples. So some sort of dependency on throttle is already there.

Side note: in MaxSCL I try to do the same, but as Piboso didn't want to disclose how exactly he does that (which is understandable) I just did something out of my mind: it sounds close to me but there's no gurantee it is actually the same as GPB (most likely it's not).


What GPB does (in theory), is that it is playing with the volume of both layers depending of the gaz input value. BUT! What i'm talking about is some variances in the sound (3rd layer ?) depending on this value. It's more complicated than what is actually used in GPB, however, it could add a big touch of realism to the simulation.

Basically:

Layer 0 = opening throttle/acceleration

Layer 1 = almost constant throttle use (or 5%), throttle stability.

Layer 2 = closing throttle/deceleration.

QuoteIf it can do it for 4s, it can do it for 2s. The effect you talk about (Doppler) applies to all sound sources/types.


Well, there's a difference between both engine types (when it comes to pure sound coming from the engine). When 4 strokes are more "uniform" (maybe V4s are one of the only exceptions), 2 strokes have most of the time two distinct sounds (already explained), which doesn't render the same depending on when/where it is listened.

Maybe we could expect a sound system update in the beta 8 ? :P

Eagle

>Hawk

I have this one: http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/ferrari-racing-wheel-red-legend-edition

Costed me 60euros. Still enjoying it, despite the spring of the wheel beginning to loose resistance which makes it less hard to turn. (just a little detail..)

The rear brake saved me a lot of times, and i personally think that combining both uses makes cornering a bit easier.

Kerazo

to be honest i think differences should be +/- 1 sec on some tracks more , on others less. i uploaded a video a while ago where you can see it

Vini

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 01:29:45 pmWell, there's a difference between both engine types (when it comes to pure sound coming from the engine). When 4 strokes are more "uniform" (maybe V4s are one of the only exceptions), 2 strokes have most of the time two distinct sounds (already explained), which doesn't render the same depending on when/where it is listened.

I seem to have missed the explanation for this.
Is this also true for evenly firing V4 screamer engines (90° firing order) like the YZR500s in the video I posted?

Eagle

Sounds like the crankshaft sound is more present than the 2s whining one, it's more "uniform" than other 2s configurations. Do you have any onboard videos of it ?

HornetMaX

Quote from: h106frp on October 10, 2015, 09:32:15 am
I do wish the helmet overlay followed the horizon tilt, always looks odd to me otherwise.

Hmm would be a bit tricky to do as it depends on the bike's lean angle and the tilt setting (and the way GPB manages this).

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 01:29:45 pm
What GPB does (in theory), is that it is playing with the volume of both layers depending of the gaz input value. BUT! What i'm talking about is some variances in the sound (3rd layer ?) depending on this value. It's more complicated than what is actually used in GPB, however, it could add a big touch of realism to the simulation.

Basically:

Layer 0 = opening throttle/acceleration

Layer 1 = almost constant throttle use (or 5%), throttle stability.

Layer 2 = closing throttle/deceleration.

I see what you mean, I just don't think it's actually usable. How would you get the samples at different engine loads ?
We've already trouble getting only 2 sets of samples (throttle fully OFF, throttle fully ON), you're asking for more sets.

Everything I've seen around seems to use the same approach as Piboso.
One thing I've seen that is not done in GPB (as far as I know) is that the overall output could have an amplitude modulated by a combo of throttle position and output torque.
See this at page 5.

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 01:29:45 pm
QuoteIf it can do it for 4s, it can do it for 2s. The effect you talk about (Doppler) applies to all sound sources/types.


Well, there's a difference between both engine types (when it comes to pure sound coming from the engine). When 4 strokes are more "uniform" (maybe V4s are one of the only exceptions), 2 strokes have most of the time two distinct sounds (already explained), which doesn't render the same depending on when/where it is listened.

That still doesn't make a difference in terms of doppler effect: again, the doppler applies to any sound source.

MaX.

Eagle

QuoteI see what you mean, I just don't think it's actually usable. How would you get the samples at different engine loads ?
We've already trouble getting only 2 sets of samples (throttle fully OFF, throttle fully ON), you're asking for more sets.


As it was "planned"... Setting up a place where we could test bikes (dyno ?) and where we could record sounds at will... In any cases, we are still in the same situation, where we need some sounds. But before thinking about making sounds for this 3rd layer, it should be implemented in the build already.  ;)

QuoteEverything I've seen around seems to use the same approach as Piboso.


This engine sounds simulation technique is pretty old actually, it's been used in games/projects older than GPB. And in most cases, it was enough, even if not perfect in term of realism.

As for this pdf, looks complicated. I can't imagine all the work to do just for one sample.. :\