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(WIP)Test - Tyre Grip Tuning for the 500cc Varase....

Started by Hawk, June 12, 2014, 11:43:12 AM

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Vini


Hawk

@Vin97: Thanks for the video evidence post...... Though it's not quite what I'd call a controlled power slide as I noticed that the slide didn't start till the very exit of the corner. Any chance you know of a video were you can see someone initiate the slide from the apex onwards and through the exit? This is what we'd like to see to prove it's possible in GPB.  :)

Thanks again for the post.  ;D

Hawk.

Hawk

Hi Guys.

Update: Friday 13th(oooOOO!!) June 2014

Download Link to the Varase Tyre Grip Tuning Test Bike :
https://mega.co.nz/#!XA9BnDhR!R-gzBUSO7ABuTwcx_AwqBPKA3iNpNbuNiXE_MN-QWbI

I personally think I've gone overboard with this one, but at least you should see a much looser rear end than before to give you guys who didn't feel much difference a good idea of what we are trying to achieve.

I've also altered the first gear ratio to allow for faster acceleration out of hairpin bends(Be carefull! Hehe)

Give it a try and let me know what you think this time. Thanks guys!  ;D


Hawk.

PS: I've updated the download link in the 1st post also.

girlracerTracey

Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.

I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.

That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..

Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..

grT  :)

girlracerTracey

Quote from: EdouardB on June 13, 2014, 06:39:11 PM
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
Also as a very cheeky and "tongue in cheek" comment which is meant in good humour to Edouard

Don't start this Tracey. I like this kind of comments too much. Just don't.

;)

Hawk

Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 07:39:51 PM
Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.

I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.

That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..

Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..

grT  :)

Hi Tracey.

As far as I'm concerned you don't have to ask permission, I think it's great that your also doing some research and tests on this. :D

The results will be interesting, as I didn't actually notice any difference with respect to power sliding from beta 3 to beta 4/b.... Any chance of a replay file or youtube vid showing the result?  ;)

Hawk.

JamoZ

Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 07:39:51 PM
Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.

I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.

That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..

Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..

grT  :)

I know you all think i`m some demented pirate or something, but i know what i feel when i feel it...

Vini

Yes, that's why the video says 'powerslide' :D
As I said earlier, in my opinion these are highside-safes.
I just wanted to clarify that we are on the same definition of powerslide :D


So, the seearch continues...

Alby46

sometimes i powerslide while cornering but it's not intentional, when i want to intentionally slide i choose the cagiva , assen, wet 100% and wet tires
Still riding a 50cc, but enjoying it :)

_oDi_

Quote from: Alby46 on June 13, 2014, 08:54:46 PM
sometimes i powerslide while cornering but it's not intentional, when i want to intentionally slide i choose the cagiva , assen, wet 100% and wet tires

+1 :D

slide for me (and for many Others drivers on our forum) is not so hard, and is not a highside-safes, but real poweslide. Before judging phisics of gpbikes a driver should be able to really bring the bikes to their limit, and by that I mean do really fast times, or compete with other fast drivers in a race, you will find out many details of the physics that if you drive "slowly" you can not see. Having said that, a lot depends on the style of each rider.  :)

Desteban

Okay it took me a while to do some small slides, haven't toutched the Varese in a while and this bike isn't really easy to ride.

I was about to go wide and safed it with a little slide
http://youtu.be/5MItdXtV5Ek

Found an old Replay in Paul Ricard doing some small slides at the fast right hander after the back straight, but after seeing this tiny vid took already an eternity to upload I suspended the thought of uploading another vid for now.

The thing is, you are either on full lean angle having some small slides or aim for a bigger slide at less lean angle. Problem is you need exact lean angel and throttle here or you are losing the rear one way or another. Perfect throttle, not enough lean and you either wheelie or have some straight slide. Perfect throttle and too much lean and you of course low side. Too much throttel and no matter the variaton, you hit the dirt. So it boils down to a lot of training. In the time I used the 500cc frequently it was possible to do that, but happened rarely. You don't provoke it, it just happens.

And from what you guys say even back in the day they weren't all sliding around, just the top guys doing it. If you practice in GPBikes you will be able to do it too so I think thats pretty spot on  :P
But that is only my opionion...

I will try your bike none the less hawk and see how it does.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 06:27:48 PM
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 10:16:35 PM

P.S. I have to say though I did like Hawk's looser rear end that I tried last night..if you'll pardon the expression.. ;D

Hehe  ;D ;D

Seems people want a bigger experience.... I'll have to loosen the rear end more later tonight to allow it to slide more easily.   :P ;D
Oh come on you two ... get a grip :)

MaX.

HornetMaX

Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
I don`t give a rats ass about all the technical yap yap in here, the solution to all your crying is simpler then you think,  just revert the tire grip transition to what it was before beta 4, it was almost perfect at one point, so it can be done again.
There's no such a thing as "revert the grip transition". Between beta3 and beta4 some changes to the physics (to fix other issues) have taken place.
I don't think you can simply replace a bunch of beta4 params with the beta3 ones and get back to the feeling of beta3.

When we moved from beta3 to beta4, we all agreed that it was an improvement overall (not perfect, but an improvement).

MaX.


girlracerTracey

June 13, 2014, 09:54:25 PM #58 Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 10:04:35 PM by girlracerTracey
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 09:36:21 PM
Okay it took me a while to do some small slides, haven't toutched the Varese in a while and this bike isn't really easy to ride.

I was about to go wide and safed it with a little slide

http://www.youtube.com/v/5MItdXtV5Ek&feature=youtu.be


That was really interesting to see Desteban. That is really what I've been talking about. Not a lurid 150ft certifiably insane powerslide but a steering correction using the throttle. A good example. I would love to see more from the same angle with perhaps a slightly longer slide but I understand that it is very time consuming getting things recorded and uploaded to youtube.

That was pretty convincing. The interesting thing for me, however, is the fact that you and JamoZ are both very fast riders and are hitting I think very competitive lap times but you have differing opinions on this issue.

I am going to do some more laps and some experimentation but I am very grateful that you posted that video. Thanks.  :)

grT

JamoZ

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 13, 2014, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
I don`t give a rats ass about all the technical yap yap in here, the solution to all your crying is simpler then you think,  just revert the tire grip transition to what it was before beta 4, it was almost perfect at one point, so it can be done again.
There's no such a thing as "revert the grip transition". Between beta3 and beta4 some changes to the physics (to fix other issues) have taken place.
I don't think you can simply replace a bunch of beta4 params with the beta3 ones and get back to the feeling of beta3.

When we moved from beta3 to beta4, we all agreed that it was an improvement overall (not perfect, but an improvement).

MaX.



Why not, just fiddle around with some numbers  :P While we`re at it, can i have my Beta 3 brakes back aswell?