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Constructive feedback about the game and its future direction

Started by rodney007, November 05, 2014, 05:43:44 AM

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BOBR6 84

November 05, 2014, 09:04:41 PM #60 Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 09:20:08 PM by BOBR6 84
I agree with stout too..

Trouble is, its really hard to give feedback on this forum!

I think its split.. Some people just want a good playable game. Others want a full on sim!

Im still finding out what I want lol. Either way.. Love it or hate it, I cant stop anyway! :)

Also the fun im having with the 600s at the moment is unmatched! Thats a pretty good representation of a motorcycle in my opinion.

Hawk

I totally agree with Stout in that I think Piboso is being misunderstood by many when he says the simulation model is now "state of the art"..... You have the simulation algorithms, and then the model physics file inputs to that simulation algorithm(if I'm correct in understanding how this works?).
Now. Piboso is saying that it's the bike model physics file inputs that need fine tuning now(Not the simulation), and because the simulation is now "state of the art" this should now be possible even by others who do the physics files for Mod Bikes. Am I correct?

Hawk.

EdouardB

I think you are correct and having tried the 600 tonight I think 6c has a lot of potential if people put time in the mods..

noss69

Gp Bikes Best simulation of motorbike !

It takes 2 years to learn to speak and a lifetime to learn to shut it

Hawk

Quote from: EdouardB on November 05, 2014, 10:02:37 PM
I think you are correct and having tried the 600 tonight I think 6c has a lot of potential if people put time in the mods..

+1

Yes. I've only ridden the WSS 600 YZF R6 of all the WSS 600 bike set, and I think it's a great little bike, not perfect, but still a great little Bike MOD. It should be interesting to see what the Physics MOD guys can now do with this simulation.  ;D

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 05, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
This whole discussion is pointless because most people don't seem to understand the following statement from Piboso....
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 07:21:18 PM
The physics simulation is now the state of the art. So from now on you should not expect big changes, but a lot of parameters tuning. To do that, of course feedback is not only welcome, as always, but needed.
The problem is that the point has been made way too late: had it been made when beta6 went out (ideally even before), a lot of people would have been more inclined to accept the current status of affairs. As often, a tiny bit of communication can spare a lot of trouble.

MaX.

BOBR6 84

November 05, 2014, 11:35:52 PM #66 Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 12:32:22 AM by BOBR6 84
+1 billion

Im easily excited but easily dissapointed too..
So if the physics model is complete and its now down to fine tuning.. Then im excited again!  ;D

Thinking about the 600s.. If the 1000s end up similar to that with more power, or more of everything.. That would be mega!  ;D
Sounds like that can be a possibillity!!  8)

I think core exe crashes etc just adds to peoples frustration of not knowing if or when anything will be or is planned to be done.. Before old age sets in!  :P

rodney007

November 06, 2014, 01:13:31 AM #67 Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:17:34 AM by rodney007
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
Bottom line: GP Bikes physics improved greatly since Beta4. It is now, at last, a full fledged simulator. Only brakes need some more work to simulate temperature, wear and weight.
Problem is, physics parameters of the "stock" bikes have not be properly updated to match the changes. Virtual rider and dampers are the first coming to mind. However, some data has already been changed to be more realistic: springs, steer lock, aerodynamic.

I personally think you are a bit delusional about what/how you percieve the game to be currently....which is very frustrating.

State of the art doesn't mean realistic or simulation.

The features implemented are state of the art however they are not setup correctly..

What we are trying to say as although you think your game is perfect it is far from it. There are several members on this forum
that race or ride in real life who would be significantly beneficial to the development of the physics.

Considering you feel that not having race track experience has nothing to do with making a racing simulation just bit bit silly. Game developers engage with the community/professionals and make changes. Not just a few people but many to find the balance.

All in all I am personally extremely grateful for this game and your efforts, I think investing into this game was a positive but would like to see you work with people that know what they are talking about.


JamoZ

Quote from: rodney007 on November 06, 2014, 01:13:31 AM
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
Bottom line: GP Bikes physics improved greatly since Beta4. It is now, at last, a full fledged simulator. Only brakes need some more work to simulate temperature, wear and weight.
Problem is, physics parameters of the "stock" bikes have not be properly updated to match the changes. Virtual rider and dampers are the first coming to mind. However, some data has already been changed to be more realistic: springs, steer lock, aerodynamic.

I personally think you are a bit delusional about what/how you percieve the game to be currently....which is very frustrating.

State of the art doesn't mean realistic or simulation.

The features implemented are state of the art however they are not setup correctly..

What we are trying to say as although you think your game is perfect it is far from it. There are several members on this forum
that race or ride in real life who would be significantly beneficial to the development of the physics.

Considering you feel that not having race track experience has nothing to do with making a racing simulation just bit bit silly. Game developers engage with the community/professionals and make changes. Not just a few people but many to find the balance.

All in all I am personally extremely grateful for this game and your efforts, I think investing into this game was a positive but would like to see you work with people that know what they are talking about.

You have a way of saying exactly what i`m thinking. Want to get married?  :-*

BOBR6 84

Anyway..... Theres still 12 spaces left for the wss race at A1 ring!!!  ;)

Just put yer bloody names down and have some fun! Lol  :D

girlracerTracey

November 06, 2014, 02:40:34 AM #70 Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 02:47:25 AM by girlracerTracey
The thought that keeps occurring to me if I am honest is this: How can anyone devise a motorcycle racing simulation in the absence of full & proper input, testing and ongoing consultation with individuals who race in real life or have done so in the past ?  Moreover what this project arguably ideally needs is the input of a professional motorcycle racer, either currently racing or retired, who can provide guidance & recommendation on development of the physics model so as to ensure, to the greatest extent possible, the realism & accuracy of the "on-track" behaviour of the racing motorcycles in this simulation.

It is my understanding that this is how the industry F1 simulators are developed and perfected. Input and consultation is made with real life F1 drivers from both a racing and/or testing background. This counterbalances the input from the engineers. An F1 simulator by its very nature, purpose and design must reflect as accurately as possible the real life on track behaviour & "feel" of a modern F1 racing car. 

My question is this: Now that PiBoSo and the development team are satisfied they have achieved a "base" physics model that incorporates all physical parameters and aspects deemed necessary to move this project forwards will any ongoing consulation now take place with an experienced real life motorcycle racer? Has any consideration been made in the past concerning the possibility of approaching a suitable candidate to invite them to assist in the development of the gpbikes project?

To my mind as gifted and as talented as PiBoSo and his team undoubtedly are it would make sense to consult with an individual who has extensive real world on-track experience. In saying this I do not mean in anyway to undermine the position or authority of PiBoSo in relation to this project. To the contrary my thinking in this would be to enhance it.

What are your honest thoughts?

grT

rodney007

Quote from: girlracerTracey on November 06, 2014, 02:40:34 AM
The thought that keeps occurring to me if I am honest is this: How can anyone devise a motorcycle racing simulation in the absence of full & proper input, testing and ongoing consultation with individuals who race in real life or have done so in the past ?  Moreover what this project arguably ideally needs is the input of a professional motorcycle racer, either currently racing or retired, who can provide guidance & recommendation on development of the physics model so as to ensure, to the greatest extent possible, the realism & accuracy of the "on-track" behaviour of the racing motorcycles in this simulation.

It is my understanding that this is how the industry F1 simulators are developed and perfected. Input and consultation is made with real life F1 drivers from both a racing and/or testing background. This counterbalances the input from the engineers. An F1 simulator by its very nature, purpose and design must reflect as accurately as possible the real life on track behaviour & "feel" of a modern F1 racing car. 

My question is this: Now that PiBoSo and the development team are satisfied they have achieved a "base" physics model that incorporates all physical parameters and aspects deemed necessary to move this project forwards will any ongoing consulation now take place with an experienced real life motorcycle racer? Has any consideration been made in the past concerning the possibility of approaching a suitable candidate to invite them to assist in the development of the gpbikes project?

To my mind as gifted and as talented as PiBoSo and his team undoubtedly are it would make sense to consult with an individual who has extensive real world on-track experience. In saying this I do not mean in anyway to undermine the position or authority of PiBoSo in relation to this project. To the contrary my thinking in this would be to enhance it.

What are your honest thoughts?

grT

+1

BOBR6 84

November 06, 2014, 06:23:54 AM #72 Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 06:54:23 AM by BOBR6 84
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 05, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
Imo, the biggest obstacle atm seems to be the simulation of the virtual rider. In many cases of the sudden front loss, the behaviour of the virtual rider looks very suspect to me.

Agreed.

well thats good news.

couple of suggestions.. (without knowing what impact the virtual rider has already)

back off whatever forces are going through the arms/handlebars OR add a steering damper.. and somehow have some weight/forces on the foot pegs and the tank with the knee's so when flicking left/right the virtual rider uses his knee's more instead of too much force on the handlebars.. same for braking stabillity, use his knee's..

Edit: I know there is already a steering damper present.. but maybe an adjustable one in the garage to mess around with would work well with different setups! as it should do..

grimm

 ??? Not really clear on what people are expecting. Piboso has been into uncharted territory for years now, waaaaay ahead of anyone or anything else out there, netBike was as far as it EVER got in terms of a motorcycle simulation... and here we are with GP Bikes. I've done everything on GP Bikes I've done in real life from close calls to harrowing moments riding wheelies, all the way to catching air on a street bike. There is nowhere else in the simuation or gaming community with anywhere near this level of realism. Lets keep the critisizm constructive please? I'm grateful for this sim, and I think Piboso deserves a bit of applause here for Beta 6, compared to wheel spin 360 turns on the early alpha version, we are at a point where I think we should let the work keep going and hope the core crashes get fixed soon, as said by Piboso, it's tweaking that is left, I would say that is a good sign overall for the future of GP Bikes.

PiBoSo

Quote from: rodney007 on November 06, 2014, 01:13:31 AM
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
Bottom line: GP Bikes physics improved greatly since Beta4. It is now, at last, a full fledged simulator. Only brakes need some more work to simulate temperature, wear and weight.
Problem is, physics parameters of the "stock" bikes have not be properly updated to match the changes. Virtual rider and dampers are the first coming to mind. However, some data has already been changed to be more realistic: springs, steer lock, aerodynamic.
State of the art doesn't mean realistic or simulation.

Yes it is: the algorithms used in Beta6 make GP Bikes a full fledged realistic simulator.

Quote
The features implemented are state of the art however they are not setup correctly..

What we are trying to say as although you think your game is perfect it is far from it. There are several members on this forum
that race or ride in real life who would be significantly beneficial to the development of the physics.

Did you read the reply to Abigor? Or Stout's excellent post?  ???

Quote
Considering you feel that not having race track experience has nothing to do with making a racing simulation just bit bit silly. Game developers engage with the community/professionals and make changes. Not just a few people but many to find the balance.

To quote myself:
The physics simulation is now the state of the art. So from now on you should not expect big changes, but a lot of parameters tuning. To do that, of course feedback is not only welcome, as always, but needed.

Did you read any of the posts in this thread?  >:(
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".