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Motion Simulator/ Controller Whishlist

Started by Gibbon, December 01, 2014, 12:10:57 PM

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Gibbon

Hi,

It seems that you guys are interested in motorbike controller and/or motion simulator for GPB (more than I expected  :D )

My project was to make a full motion simulator (for myself at first and maybe for professional use if it works well) but I will also do a "desk" version.

Before doing the hardware part, It's better for me to know what you would like to have in an "desk" version and for what price range.

I'm making a list with what I see and I'll update it with what you would see or what you want:




- 2DOF handlebar (1DOF as a real motorbike (counter steering) and one for motorbike roll angle)
- ForceFeedBack (for counter steering and/or motorbike roll. Using servomotor)
- Throttle
- Front brake (using spring)
- Clutch

- Buttons (Reset/ECU Mode/Pit Limiter)
- Dashboard ? (RPM leds, LCD screen)
- Rearsets (gear shift lever, rear brake)


All suggestions are welcome!  ;)


cdx

Wishlist for a desk controller that I can buy and use :)

1. Simple and existing (rather than freaking awesome on paper but never getting built)
2. Intuitive and natural-feeling controls for a bike
3. Not too expensive

In more detail:
- 2DOF handlebar (1DOF as a real motorbike (counter steering) and one for motorbike roll angle)
- ForceFeedBack (for counter steering and/or motorbike roll. Using servomotor)
- Throttle
- Front brake (using spring)
- Clutch
- Buttons (Reset/ECU Mode/Pit Limiter)
- Dashboard ? (RPM leds, LCD screen)
- Rearsets (gear shift lever, rear brake)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have force feedback on a desk controller and dashboard and rearsets also sound nice. But they complicate things and make the controller way more expensive. Actually, the dashboard would be completely useless for anyone who uses Rift once it's out, which I imagine would be nearly all sim fans. If it exists it should definitely be only an option.

As for rearsets, I used to think they are an integral part of a controller but to use even semi-realistic ones you'll need a special chair. More setup, more costs, more space. Again, only as an option.

So, pertty much what doubledragoncc has posted elsewhere on the forum, the thing just needs to be built and sold.

Of course, if you find a way to include everything and price it very cheap that would be perfect. But I have the feeling that losing lots of money on every sale is not what you're after :)

BOBR6 84

 I would like bars on the desk that tilt left and right as well as turn (steer) l/r for counter steering.

So basicly I put pressure on the right handlbar slightly pushing forward, then the bars tilt to the right to represent the lean angle.

All the main controls on the bars, just a simple gear shifter on the floor, no need for rear brake for me.. Maybe a button somewhere to tap now and again.

I would buy that.

BOBR6 84

I have to say, although I admire and respect all the different inventions.. Im perfectly happy with a control pad!

Id like to see a simple gamepad adapted for bike games/sims especially.

All about the feel/stiffness/precission/feedback from the triggers and sticks etc..

h106frp

i think the pads would be improved by making the direction stick longer for left/right  but setting it deeper into the pad, this would give the feel of a short stick height above the pad body with longer travel so a bit more precise for driving type games.

doubledragoncc

Heres the base for my clamp-on system but no plans for FFB yet as I have not done much with it and will wait until I have tested more.



And you could add foot controls later. (These are a very old model)



That keeps the cost down a bit.

Keep it sunny side up

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Gibbon

Quote from: cdx on December 01, 2014, 09:01:23 PM
2. Intuitive and natural-feeling controls for a bike
...
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have force feedback on a desk controller and dashboard and rearsets also sound nice. But they complicate things and make the controller way more expensive.

I think if you want natural-feeling then you will need good ForceFeedBack and yes, it will for sure sure increase the price of the thing. Using springs for example will cost less (almost nothing) but the feeling you will get will be more "arcade" than "simulation".  :-\

Quote from: cdx on December 01, 2014, 09:01:23 PM
Actually, the dashboard would be completely useless for anyone who uses Rift once it's out, which I imagine would be nearly all sim fans. If it exists it should definitely be only an option.

I do agree, dashboard is a fancy thing, that's why I write it down in orange...I also see it more like an option.

BOBR6 84


doubledragoncc

December 02, 2014, 10:15:36 AM #8 Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 10:31:17 AM by doubledragoncc
Thumb brake for rear.............That is a simple but ferkin great idea, I kicked myself as soon as I read it. Thankyou BOB, I am going to start designing that into the left clutch perch, but it was where I had a button cluster so will play about with best position for it. If I use it I will credit it to you though, give it a name like the "BOBR Brake".

See 2 heads are better than 1 but a 100 makes it even better lol

I think a dash would be great and on my system it would cover the steering plate. I thought about it in 2012 but not done anything yet. I would like to 3D print one from a Gixxer or CBR. You can see below and that I do have thumbsticks left and right on the bars if needed. The one on the throttle side is hard to use with front brake and throttle already needing your hand.



DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Gibbon

Rear brake thumb-lever is already used by some riders (Canepa, Xaus for example)
I remember Canepa having this system cause he was a bit tall and his feet was too large to use the foot rear brake in corner... :D

Here is a picture of how it's set on SBK BMW:


doubledragoncc

December 02, 2014, 10:41:24 AM #10 Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 10:49:24 AM by doubledragoncc
TY wkp.
I can add this kind of control to my system using one of my MTE boxes so is fairly simple, today is a good day for ideas loving it

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

h106frp

Interesting link (.pdf) for a bike simulator and estimation of steering forces required for feedback systems, look at the design on the second page using the frame and steering from a 125.
https://hal.inria.fr/file/index/docid/515559/filename/Final.pdf

BOBR6 84

WOW!! that is some complicated stuff  :o

(note to self: leave these threads alone and let the technical guys carry on in peace lol)

lol ;)

h106frp

Beside all the techie stuff i was surprised at just how small the steering feedback motor is in that rig, even the peak current required to give a decent 'snap' to the response is only 12amps, easily do-able with an old PC psu. This is with full width bars, scale it to something more mini-moto sized in bar width which would be better for a desk top anyway and the power requirements would be even lower.

Gibbon

December 09, 2014, 04:30:28 PM #14 Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:34:05 PM by wkp
Quote from: h106frp on December 09, 2014, 10:42:51 AM
Interesting link (.pdf) for a bike simulator and estimation of steering forces required for feedback systems, look at the design on the second page using the frame and steering from a 125.
https://hal.inria.fr/file/index/docid/515559/filename/Final.pdf

Indeed, very interesting document  :D

As far as i know, this simulator is an University project.
Here is a video related to this simulator ( in french 8) ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXPPfuL9uzE