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Graphics 2015 standarts

Started by -aGy-, January 28, 2015, 04:37:26 AM

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PiBoSo

"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

Hawk

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 28, 2015, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 28, 2015, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: -aGy- on January 28, 2015, 04:37:26 AM
i dont want to play this game anymore because graphics are outdated and its just not so good looking. still few years to go and its getting better i hope. physics awesome offcourse

The tracks could be more detailed and have better textures.
Except for this, everything is supported: normal maps, specular maps, live reflections, static reflections, reflection maps, ambient shadows, 3D grass, 3D marbles, rain reflections, raindrops on the visor, ...
You can even change the track lighting to get that super-contrasted "Gran Turismo style" look.
More fancy effects like motion blur or depth of field or post-processing filters may be added in the future.

Just one question Piboso: If I apply the normal, specular, maps/materials in a Pro 3D app like Maya, do we still have to create the shader text files in the track folders? I'd have said no, but not sure?

Hawk.

Okay. I've had a look at "Victoria" and it hasn't any text files for including shaders, etc, etc.... So I'll presume that by adding shaders, normal maps in a 3D app doesn't then require further text files to implement these in GPB track creation.

Hawk.

noss69

January 28, 2015, 02:03:17 PM #17 Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 02:05:00 PM by noss69
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 28, 2015, 01:08:10 PM
Quote from: noss69 on January 28, 2015, 12:06:46 PM
- Deformation field

Do you mean depth of field?

Deformation of the ground trace of grass and sand fall

doubledragoncc

Well I was waiting for someone to bring it up but I think Piboso is not getting a fair deal on this subject and a BIG AND, are not most of the graphics community made MODS???????????

That being my opening I would like to add my opinion here as I am one of the old farts in here and been with PC games from day one I have lived with the progression of graphics. I am a finicky old fart that wants the best in all I do or have. I want the great looking tracks and bikes like in some of the new bike games as I have lived with crappy graphics way toooooo long. Some of you dont know how lucky you are with GPB's graphics, try back in 1984 and the SHIT that I had to live with and I thought that was great!!!!! I think to say the graphics in GPB are out dated is unfair as I think it is being said because of the overall appearance of the game at present, BUT take a close look at the bikes 3D models, they are brilliant, not upto some of the BIG companies out there where they are PAID big bucks to make the models, the most bikes you are all riding are from the community, as are the tracks!!!! The guys that make them spend their spare and free time on something for all of us and they do it all with a passion and total dedication to the community. They work under the pressure of us all saying "hey dude wheres the update for the M1" while they are doing 10 OTHER models at the same time and all for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! To complain about graphic standards is an insult to the modding community in GPB.

These Modders have supplied us with these fantastic models that not only look great but have physics too!!!! Most of us make our own paints, so how can you blame Piboso for out dated graphics when its US making the graphics. I know you are all saying about spectacular lighting and other points but in the end as said before, if your riding fast you wont be looking at the pretty flowers on the grass verge, or are you??????????????? The tracks are the downfall at present but only in graphical content. The physical tracks are there and some are great, some still need work to be ride-able, but thats what WIP is. I am sure there is more to the graphics engine in GPB, but for it to function you have to have the physical components for it to work with, the backgrounds, the 3D models and everything have to be to the standard for the engine to use them, but WE are the ones making paints, bikes, helmets, suits and track graphics that make up GPB. So in the end, the out dated appearance is made by us.

I ride GPB because of the physics, I WANT the best graphics too, but for now the compromise is worth it. If I could make it look better I would, but I got enough to do trying to make a controller we can all have one day at as low a cost as possible. I have all the other bike games as I have to test my controllers in them, but otherwise I dont play them. The other day I was working with MotoGP 13 and 14, holy cow what crap!!! Yeah they look pretty good and the graphics engine is better than GPB, but I had NO fun, I get wound up by a terrible interface so Im pissed off before I have even got on a bike, then the racing!!!!!!!!! WTF is this shit. Come on guys, can you really put up with the physics that a 5 year old can ride with just to smell the frickin roses by the track????????  Oh and while on the subject of the track, tell me if you had 100  tracks to chose from????? Oh and how many bikes, and classes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GP Bikes is the dogs bollocks from road racing simulations, its the ONLY road bike sim there is, and if one of you mentions the RIDE I will hunt you down and burn your computer!!!! Joking!!! Maybe??????  No but seriously GP Bikes is a simulation and concentrates on physics not appearance and thats how it will stay. Piboso has enough to do with the physics so its up to us to improve the graphics and bit by bit its happening.

Looking at GPB is not spectacular, that is true, but it is still a great looking SIMULATION, not a pretty looking game for 5 year olds who spend their lives following the bright pretty things in life, they always have a bad side to them and when it comes to bike games NONE have good physics if you can say they have any physics at all. Thank god I never paid for any milestone, blackbean or capcom product, I would want my money back for selling me a product that does not do as they say it does. They are just pretty boxes to have on the shelf.

I am sure as time goes by and Piboso and the community feels there is now time to concentrate on the graphical side of the sim they will, but until then what do you really want, physics or pretty pictures?????? I love driving in Pcars for the graphics, they are beautiful, but I want to ride a bike along the French coast not drive a car. So I stick with GPB and love it. I can slip into my racing leathers with my design on them, put on my helmet with my paint and then straddle my bike of choice with my paintwork. I can tune the bike to suit my riding style and chose between over 100 tracks to ride and do it alone or with others online. There maybe problems here and there, the graphics are not the best, BUT there is no other sim/game I would rather be spending what precious spare time I have in. I do miss lens flares though Im a kid when it comes to them lol.

If you want to give Piboso the money so he can use such graphics engines as cry engine 3 and what ever the latest ones are, then go ahead because until then GPB is all about the physics and the community, Piboso and the Modders give us so much it is wrong to complain about the quality when most of it is FREE. 

I dont wanna ride in first gear and look at the way the sun reflects of this and that and how the grass is torn up by a tire, I want to ride and dont have time for prettiness.

I hope those who feel they will leave GPB because of the graphics not being the best, take the time to reflect on what they think, that they see GPB for what it is and then stay. This is the best sim community there it is and it would be a shame to lose you.

Keep in sunny side up.............even if there are no lens flares!!!

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 12700K 5.1GHz Z690 ASUS Strix Z690-A Mobo 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX3080 OC 10GB DDR6X ASUS Ryujin 360 AOI Cooler ROG Thor 1200w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.

matty0l215

Quote from: doubledragoncc on January 28, 2015, 06:21:04 PM
Well I was waiting for someone to bring it up but I think Piboso is not getting a fair deal on this subject and a BIG AND, are not most of the graphics community made MODS???????????

That being my opening I would like to add my opinion here as I am one of the old farts in here and been with PC games from day one I have lived with the progression of graphics. I am a finicky old fart that wants the best in all I do or have. I want the great looking tracks and bikes like in some of the new bike games as I have lived with crappy graphics way toooooo long. Some of you dont know how lucky you are with GPB's graphics, try back in 1984 and the SHIT that I had to live with and I thought that was great!!!!! I think to say the graphics in GPB are out dated is unfair as I think it is being said because of the overall appearance of the game at present, BUT take a close look at the bikes 3D models, they are brilliant, not upto some of the BIG companies out there where they are PAID big bucks to make the models, the most bikes you are all riding are from the community, as are the tracks!!!! The guys that make them spend their spare and free time on something for all of us and they do it all with a passion and total dedication to the community. They work under the pressure of us all saying "hey dude wheres the update for the M1" while they are doing 10 OTHER models at the same time and all for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! To complain about graphic standards is an insult to the modding community in GPB.

These Modders have supplied us with these fantastic models that not only look great but have physics too!!!! Most of us make our own paints, so how can you blame Piboso for out dated graphics when its US making the graphics. I know you are all saying about spectacular lighting and other points but in the end as said before, if your riding fast you wont be looking at the pretty flowers on the grass verge, or are you??????????????? The tracks are the downfall at present but only in graphical content. The physical tracks are there and some are great, some still need work to be ride-able, but thats what WIP is. I am sure there is more to the graphics engine in GPB, but for it to function you have to have the physical components for it to work with, the backgrounds, the 3D models and everything have to be to the standard for the engine to use them, but WE are the ones making paints, bikes, helmets, suits and track graphics that make up GPB. So in the end, the out dated appearance is made by us.

I ride GPB because of the physics, I WANT the best graphics too, but for now the compromise is worth it. If I could make it look better I would, but I got enough to do trying to make a controller we can all have one day at as low a cost as possible. I have all the other bike games as I have to test my controllers in them, but otherwise I dont play them. The other day I was working with MotoGP 13 and 14, holy cow what crap!!! Yeah they look pretty good and the graphics engine is better than GPB, but I had NO fun, I get wound up by a terrible interface so Im pissed off before I have even got on a bike, then the racing!!!!!!!!! WTF is this shit. Come on guys, can you really put up with the physics that a 5 year old can ride with just to smell the frickin roses by the track????????  Oh and while on the subject of the track, tell me if you had 100  tracks to chose from????? Oh and how many bikes, and classes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GP Bikes is the dogs bollocks from road racing simulations, its the ONLY road bike sim there is, and if one of you mentions the RIDE I will hunt you down and burn your computer!!!! Joking!!! Maybe??????  No but seriously GP Bikes is a simulation and concentrates on physics not appearance and thats how it will stay. Piboso has enough to do with the physics so its up to us to improve the graphics and bit by bit its happening.

Looking at GPB is not spectacular, that is true, but it is still a great looking SIMULATION, not a pretty looking game for 5 year olds who spend their lives following the bright pretty things in life, they always have a bad side to them and when it comes to bike games NONE have good physics if you can say they have any physics at all. Thank god I never paid for any milestone, blackbean or capcom product, I would want my money back for selling me a product that does not do as they say it does. They are just pretty boxes to have on the shelf.

I am sure as time goes by and Piboso and the community feels there is now time to concentrate on the graphical side of the sim they will, but until then what do you really want, physics or pretty pictures?????? I love driving in Pcars for the graphics, they are beautiful, but I want to ride a bike along the French coast not drive a car. So I stick with GPB and love it. I can slip into my racing leathers with my design on them, put on my helmet with my paint and then straddle my bike of choice with my paintwork. I can tune the bike to suit my riding style and chose between over 100 tracks to ride and do it alone or with others online. There maybe problems here and there, the graphics are not the best, BUT there is no other sim/game I would rather be spending what precious spare time I have in. I do miss lens flares though Im a kid when it comes to them lol.

If you want to give Piboso the money so he can use such graphics engines as cry engine 3 and what ever the latest ones are, then go ahead because until then GPB is all about the physics and the community, Piboso and the Modders give us so much it is wrong to complain about the quality when most of it is FREE. 

I dont wanna ride in first gear and look at the way the sun reflects of this and that and how the grass is torn up by a tire, I want to ride and dont have time for prettiness.

I hope those who feel they will leave GPB because of the graphics not being the best, take the time to reflect on what they think, that they see GPB for what it is and then stay. This is the best sim community there it is and it would be a shame to lose you.

Keep in sunny side up.............even if there are no lens flares!!!

DD

Got a TLDR version of that  :P ;D
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h106frp

January 28, 2015, 07:25:42 PM #20 Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 07:53:16 PM by h106frp
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 28, 2015, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 28, 2015, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: -aGy- on January 28, 2015, 04:37:26 AM
i dont want to play this game anymore because graphics are outdated and its just not so good looking. still few years to go and its getting better i hope. physics awesome offcourse

The tracks could be more detailed and have better textures.
Except for this, everything is supported: normal maps, specular maps, live reflections, static reflections, reflection maps, ambient shadows, 3D grass, 3D marbles, rain reflections, raindrops on the visor, ...
You can even change the track lighting to get that super-contrasted "Gran Turismo style" look.
More fancy effects like motion blur or depth of field or post-processing filters may be added in the future.

Just one question Piboso: If I apply the normal, specular, maps/materials in a Pro 3D app like Maya, do we still have to create the shader text files in the track folders? I'd have said no, but not sure?

Hawk.

I think these sort of effects (especially the one thta gives depths to 'flat' textures would have a massive impact on appearance, things like tyre walls, gravel traps and buildings would loose the unnatural flat look that they have at the moment and most graphics cards have supported these types of texture manipulations in hardware for years so you would not expect a noticeable impact on frame rates.

I have no idea how you implement them in the engine though so my apologies if this actually a lot of extra work.

Think we can give the flower borders a miss for now though  ;)

doubledragoncc

I think the problem is, that many like myself, dont know how to extract the files from a track and work on them to make them look better, then repack and use the track. If the track modders gave us the files that are the editable psd, tga, jpg etc and we the normal community could work on them, make them better and then submit them to be put in tracks a lot of the workload would be taken off the track builders. It is one thing to know how to do the 3D part but another to manipulate and do the actual artwork. I would love to help and am an artist in many ways, but in the real world and not on the computer, but I can use paint and drawing software to a high standard. I know from peoples skins how good they are in photoshop so why not put this skill to use. I am sure many would agree with me when I say that we all enjoy giving to the community and not just taking. The hours of editing it takes to make one building look real is hard work for track builders to do as well, so can one of you track builders let us know if we can help. I really think this would solve the lack of detail on tracks.

We could have a thread that handles the graphical side to editing tracks where we could download and submit the files to help the track builders, much as with bikes and clothing in GPB. 1 bike, loads of paints, 1 track and the builder could chose which was the most realistic and also best for speed of the game if implemented. I understand the higher quality of the track reduces framerate so the builders set us a limit to the file size in dpi or whatever will keep the quality but also not effect the framerate too much.

This is just an idea to help the builders with the PRETTY side of a track build. I hope someone will let me try this as I and Im sure many others would love to do it.

Keep it sunny side up................with lens flares and a few roses lol

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 12700K 5.1GHz Z690 ASUS Strix Z690-A Mobo 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX3080 OC 10GB DDR6X ASUS Ryujin 360 AOI Cooler ROG Thor 1200w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.

h106frp

Just had a quick watch through a couple of you tube demos on making textures look 3D and it does looks more of an 'arty' than 3D designer exercise so it would appear to be a task where the community could produce a library of useful stock images especially for the more common trackside scenery.

Watching the demos its quite amazing how a flat original image can be transformed into something that looks like a highly detailed 3D surface with the application of the correct filters.  8)

Klax75

This is coming down to MOD'ers more then Piboso. A of tracks, or bikes are quick versions ripped from other games. With color palletes of 256-16,000 colors when it could be millions of colors. Or old models, what adds to something to make it look real is reflect surfaces, and lighting, shadows. Reflectiveness gives depth, without it everything will flat. Majority of the tracks we have have virtually no reflective surface to them so it makes the track look really flat, and has the same shades and tones no matter where I am. Where other tracks look better since they have many different shaders and reflective maps. For me, my big thing is tracks surface when it doesn't reflect light at all. It makes it look 2D and uninteresting. Where when you can see the shine of the sun hitting it, changing with your heading.

Colors need to be more vibrant. When I am working with something I always picture it black and white. Then colors are gone but tones are there, with a lot of tracks the colors are all the same tone so nothing stands out. The sky blue isn't bright like it would be, it's a dull tone.

Like the sun in a lot of tracks, looks like a 40 watt bulb. The real sun is bright, I mean we invited sunglasses just for it. lol ;) Plus ambient light will have it's own colors.

I'd like to see some real time shadows, a no sky box, so we can have real time lighting changes. So if we had a endurance race the light source would be changing direction over time, and the color could change over time. With real time shows casting the position of the light. So bike light sources and track light sources. So we could make a Losail with etc. Or headlights for endurance races.

A lot of these things we have in GP Bikes, just the MOD'ers are the ones that need to use them.

doubledragoncc

Yep gotta agree Klax. It is down to the modders, but they are pressured by us all the time to release a track and in reality they dont have time to work on the pretty side of life. You have to remember with each beta release things change too, look at the bikes, always having to be changed with each beta, these modders are really under pressure. I take my hat off to them for the amazing work they do in such short time gaps. If they could build ONE bike or track and it worked on EVERY beta the problem would diminish as they would have more time for the graphics as you said. Thats why if we can help with the visual side by doing the 2D graphics it might help the track builder. Look at the track numbers now, over 100 different tracks, some have more than one version admittedly but dang thats a lot to keep updated for each beta!!!!

We need to stop moaning about the lack of this and that and help each other like you did for me with the cameras for Limerock Klax. A bit here and a bit there soon adds up. Lets pull up our panties and get out of the daisy field and work together to make this as we want it. These modders have enough pressure on them and are not obliged to do a thing, but they spend hours of their free time to give us everything they can. Lets help them to start by not pushing them so much.

3 massive big motherf**king cheers for the MODDERS and PIBOSO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD

GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 12700K 5.1GHz Z690 ASUS Strix Z690-A Mobo 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX3080 OC 10GB DDR6X ASUS Ryujin 360 AOI Cooler ROG Thor 1200w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.

BOBR6 84

Im all for nice shiney graphics but the bikes are already real nice.. Some content looks great some of it does'nt.. Mainly about the bike physics anyway. All been said above.

Besides.. My rig struggles with 3d grass already lol!!

h106frp

But the way the grass is constructed as 3D objects does make it hard for the graphics and they still look like simple 'spikes', this is why modern engines use texture based trickery to emulate the effect of a very complicated 3D model from simple large flat textures.

It the main reason for having a lot of ram on modern cards and the processes are optimized in the cards hardware so its relatively low processing overhead. Moving to these methods will unlock the true potential, currently unused of your existing card (as long as its not too ancient  ;))

BOBR6 84

Haha yeah its not so bad to be honest.. On some tracks it takes a hit when recording the replay etc but in the main its ok.

When I get round to it il upgrade a couple of things.. Graphics card, SSD etc.. Going by what was said in the ''pc advice'' thread..  ;) I use my pc mainly for  music and GPB.. So its all good for now.


h106frp

Biggest general upgrade you can make is to move your boot and OS to even a very small SSD the rest is actually quite happy on a mechanical drive, boot to the desktop in a few seconds. :)

Nitrox

I think motion blur could make a big difference. I remember turning it off once playing DRIFT or F1. Difference was like day and night. I know, it's a (not even very realistic) filter, but somehow makes everything look nicer ;)