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Graphics 2015 standarts

Started by -aGy-, January 28, 2015, 04:37:26 am

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BOBR6 84

Quote from: Nitrox on January 29, 2015, 09:06:11 pm
I think motion blur could make a big difference. I remember turning it off once playing DRIFT or F1. Difference was like day and night. I know, it's a (not even very realistic) filter, but somehow makes everything look nicer ;)


Yeah especially with helmet cam!

WALKEN

Personally I think the lack of robust console platform hardware has made developers creative and lazy at the same time, covering up "good enough" graphics.

There is a difference between real and PC real. I prefer PC real where the developer takes time on fine tuning redundant processes, rather than using effects to cover up half @ss work...

I still play the Commandos series PC strategy games and find the graphics to be so detailed and perfect oppose to first person offerings of the same genre.

When talking motorcycle racing games I still scratch my head when people say how great MotoGP 9/10 graphics were by Monumental. That version of MotoGP had the worst graphics on the face of this planet! Like a cartoon... GPBikes is coming along just wonderful and the use of OpenGL is great.

 
Help me, help you!

Hawk

Quote from: WALKEN on January 29, 2015, 09:26:25 pm
Personally I think the lack of robust console platform hardware has made developers creative and lazy at the same time, covering up "good enough" graphics.

There is a difference between real and PC real. I prefer PC real where the developer takes time on fine tuning redundant processes, rather than using effects to cover up half @ss work...

I still play the Commandos series PC strategy games and find the graphics to be so detailed and perfect oppose to first person offerings of the same genre.

When talking motorcycle racing games I still scratch my head when people say how great MotoGP 9/10 graphics were by Monumental. That version of MotoGP had the worst graphics on the face of this planet! Like a cartoon... GPBikes is coming along just wonderful and the use of OpenGL is great.




+10000

Well said WALKEN!  ;)

Hawk.

BOBR6 84

Yeah those motogp games by monumental were horrible..
I always played the SBK series.. Graphics on SBK were nothing special either..
Anyway iv never had an issue with the graphics in GPB. in fact, I think the graphics are really good and clear! Its just some detail, effects and scenery arnt there.. Stuff im not really fussed about..

Anyway.. The helmet in MaXhud with a dark visor tint.. Thats how it looks to me when riding my bike lol. Everything else only benefits 3rd person gameplay.  ;)

HornetMaX

Quote from: WALKEN on January 29, 2015, 09:26:25 pm
GPBikes is coming along just wonderful and the use of OpenGL is great.

The use of openGL is debatable. OK it leaves the door open to Linux and Mac users, but in the meantime we suffer because often GPU drivers performs worse on openGL than on D3D (just because 99.9% of the games are D3D). DirectX 12 may bring some serious improvement in terms of drivers overhead (so I've read), not sure openGL will follow closely.

Not a big deal right now anyway, at least not to me: I'm still 100 times more concerned about physics and stability than about graphics.

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on January 29, 2015, 10:22:47 pm
Anyway.. The helmet in MaXhud with a dark visor tint.. Thats how it looks to me when riding my bike lol.


Ahh so somebody is using the visor tint stuff ... I thought I was the only one :)

MaX.

WALKEN

OpenGL = freedom.

Direct X = Proprietary.

Help me, help you!

HornetMaX

Quote from: WALKEN on January 29, 2015, 10:35:32 pm
OpenGL = freedom.

Direct X = Proprietary.

Freedom of what exactly ?

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft but I really see little danger in binding yourself to DirectX, unless you have a really good reason to go openGL.

MaX.

WALKEN

Its more of a personal choice. I find it important to use/support open source oppose to proprietary companies...

Once heartworks become a main stream reality is when the costumer has very little control over their options, more like a feeding trough.  Development in Linux is by far the most appealing for me.

                                                                                                                    "Freedom of what exactly ?"


An  operating system I would rather not deal with, which is designed to spoon feed the user.  Besides that I feel that GPBikes being a simulator is a niche market and selfishly I wouldn't ever want to see it become destroyed by consoles/DirectX etc....   
Help me, help you!

HornetMaX

Quote from: WALKEN on January 29, 2015, 11:58:46 pm
                                                                                                                    "Freedom of what exactly ?"


An  operating system I would rather not deal with, which is designed to spoon feed the user.

No problem with the personal choice, but if Windows "spoon feeds" the user, Linux obliges him/her to "do the dishes and clean the toilets".

And by the way, when the food is good, I like to be spoon fed :)

Quote from: WALKEN on January 29, 2015, 11:58:46 pm
besides that I feel that GPBikes being a simulator is a niche market and selfishly I wouldn't ever want to see it become destroyed by consoles/DirectX etc....   

I don't see the connection between the two things: you have DirectX games that are PC only, no consoles.
Anyway, if GPB is ported to a console maintaining its spirit, I don't have a problem with that. Not sure it would sell a lot but if the port comes for free (or almost) ...
Commercially, it would make much more sense to port GPB to consoles than to port it to Linux.

MaX.

HornetMaX

By pure chance (I received it in a digest of software-related news) I just stumbled on this:

Windows 10 is the final nail in the coffin for the Linux desktop

Note that it is written by a Linux supporter.

Damn, I put another thread into off-topic territory :)

MaX.

doubledragoncc

I've been using Win10 for months and it is so much better all round. The main thing for me is the way it handles hardware a lot cleaner. It is faster than my 7 64bit Ultimate and only the preview version. It still has bugs in it but they will be sorted by release.

It will have DX12 support so thats a big plus again. I find it manages memory better so higher quality graphics could come of it on lower end systems. I recommend installing it as dual boot if your gonna try it as there are still a few points not sorted. It certainly boots quicker too.

Just thought to mention it as it will maybe effect graphics for GPB, which run perfectly on 10.

DD
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WALKEN

The graphical evolution of GPBikes is fine is the point. Again there are more important issues to resolve before graphical enhancements are focused on.

Discussing platforms isn't going off topic as they are the very tools to provide us with direction in the future, as long as it doesn't turn into - I like this! you like that! mine is better!

Think about this- When a 3rd party developer develops a game through their own passion and decide to push their work to the market they have choices to make. Once published it becomes locked out for future choices concerning the developer in terms of changes to a point. I wonder how difficult it is for Gabe Newell to reach agreements with publishers to recode games written strictly for M$ (no OpenGL) for SteamOS?

Beyond that, as mods and traditional means go's we are use to moving tangible files/folders, might not be so easy in the future where cloud bases servers stream your games and you have zero control over mods. Hence my allure for OpenGL or any other way to present graphics regardless of platform.

Thinking of the bigger picture is all.     

       
Help me, help you!

HornetMaX

Quote from: WALKEN on January 30, 2015, 04:08:04 pm
Beyond that, as mods and traditional means go's we are use to moving tangible files/folders, might not be so easy in the future where cloud bases servers stream your games and you have zero control over mods. Hence my allure for OpenGL or any other way to present graphics regardless of platform.

Wow, but how is "cloud based game streaming" related to D3D/DirectX ?!?!

Is openGl significantly better than D3D ? No.
Is D3D significantly better than openGL ? No (but DirectX 12 looks very interesting in terms of direction taken).

Does sticking to openGL have disadvantages ? Yes. Drivers are typically worse and tends to be fixed/updated at a slower pace. Because very few games use openGL. It may suck, but that's life.

Does sticking to openGL have advantages ? The only ones I've heard (aside the "I hate microsoft") is potential ability to port to linux and Mac.  GPB has been there for what ? 7, 8, 9 years ? And there's still no mac / linux version. And no absolute certainty there will ever be one.

MaX.

WALKEN

You say "wow" like I'm clueless?

I don't think you get the point.  Once software becomes cloud based you have zero control over its tangible content, hence no modding etc... Sure, it doesn't matter at that point if its D3D/OpenGL etc,  as it is being streamed in whatever format it was written.  How its related  is down to where the developer decides to sell out to. So if it is sold to a publisher that only works with M$ then obviously it will be DirectX. If the developer chooses to keep their work unto themselves then using DirectX can box you in.   

The difference between OpenGL and D3D is the word "proprietary" (forget Apple all together as they are nothing but proprietary)

I got involved with GPBikes to get away from the main stream and enjoy something more passionate with attention to detail on a more broad scope.  I don't think the progression of GPBikes allows for interest in keeping up with the levels of DirectX as it isn't about graphic enhancement more so the level of detail for simulation...  And I ask, by who"s standards for 2015?  Taking full advantage of DX12 can mean tripping over your own feet trying to run as fast as you can to get nowhere quick.

Besides that I can run GPBikes in Linux.   And at the graphical level it resides at the moment I see no advantage in either or.         
Help me, help you!

HornetMaX

Quote from: WALKEN on January 30, 2015, 04:59:20 pm
You say "wow" like I'm clueless?

No, I say "Wow" because I don't get the link between directX/OpenGL and cloud streaming.

Quote from: WALKEN on January 30, 2015, 04:59:20 pm
The difference between OpenGL and D3D is the word "proprietary" (forget Apple all together as they are nothing but proprietary)

GPB is proprietary too. As a lot of other stuff one runs, even on a linux pc.

Anyway, it's not an issue as the choice has already been made (in favor of openGL) and there's not a lot of benefit in changing that, at least at the moment.
Depending on how things evolve, it could become more of a problem mid-term.

MaX.