GP Bikes beta7b

[HornetMaX]

just tested varese and indeed no hand movement but on murasama there is...

True. Guess that Piboso overdid the "shifter" thing a bit on the murasama.

but if its that way we would never ever could downshift without a clutch or a broken gearbox rear braking or not

Yeah that's what I think too.

We should probably have 2 shift help options (shift up help and shift down help), then:

• For bikes with no gearbox electronics: shift up help lifts the throttle a bit hen shifting, shift down help pinches the clutch a bit when shifting. If shift help down is off, you can't shift down without using the clutch. If shift help up is off, you can't shift up without lifting the throttle a bit.
• For bikes with a simple shifter (e.g the murasama): you can shift up without lifting the throttle (no matter the setting of the shift up help). Shifting down still requires clutch or shift down help.
• For bikes with seamless gearboxes (let's say motogp bike since 2014): you can shift up and down without lifting the throttle nor using the clutch, no matter the shift up/down help status.

All the above, plus the bug fix "I brake with the rear, clutch fully pulled, and I can't shift down".

[Vini]

It happens to me a lot and the big problem is, that it sounds like the bike just downshifted but it actually didn't.

Just tried on the varese (no shift help + it has no shifter): break with the rear, try to downshift (or upshift)  = no shifting, but no sound at all.

Possible but I was not talking about the two-strokes since they don't have engine brake anyway.
Also, this happens regularly to me without using the rear brake (the rear wheel is just light).

[C21]

The parameter that drives that is: DisengageMaxTorque (1000 for the murasama).

Sorry to coorect you Max but the value is "100" not 1000.
If it is 1000 it will ever disengage..

[HornetMaX]

The parameter that drives that is: DisengageMaxTorque (1000 for the murasama).

Sorry to coorect you Max but the value is "100" not 1000.
If it is 1000 it will never disengage..

Uh it may be 100 (can't check now but I can believe you).
But if it is 100 and we put it to 1000, then shouldn't it always disengage ?
I mean, the lower the DisengageMaxTorque, the more likely is you can't shift down (e.g. when braking with the rear) ?

It happens to me a lot and the big problem is, that it sounds like the bike just downshifted but it actually didn't.

Just tried on the varese (no shift help + it has no shifter): break with the rear, try to downshift (or upshift)  = no shifting, but no sound at all.

Possible but I was not talking about the two-strokes since they don't have engine brake anyway.
Also, this happens regularly to me without using the rear brake (the rear wheel is just light).

The engine brake has nothing to do with the problem, so using a 2s is OK.
Actually it is better, because if you use the murasama, everything is "messed up" by the fact it has a shifter.

Personally I haven't had issue with downshifting with the murasama.

[C21]

Uh it may be 100 (can't check now but I can believe you).
But if it is 100 and we put it to 1000, then shouldn't it always disengage ?

right, corrected that.

edit:
tried that (change the value at Murusama to 1000), but GPB crashed (core.exe after chosing track and start connecting).
Obviously the value is beyond the limit 

[HornetMaX]

tried that (change the value at Murusama to 1000), but GPB crashed (core.exe after chosing track and start connecting).
Obviously the value is beyond the limit 

Hmm weird ... it may indicate it's not what we think it is ...

[Vini]

 


The engine brake does matter in the four strokes because when you count on the engine helping the bike to slow down, you will not make the corner if the engine is still in a too tall gear.
I am not saying that the engine brake causes the bug but it definitely occurs in the four strokes regularly (for whatever reason) while it doesn't seem to in the two-strokes (at least not as often, I'm pretty sure that it actually did happen a few times).

Maybe I'll upload a video of the bug.
To clarify, it only happens in straight hard braking zones when the rear wheel has almost no traction. But I definitely wasn't hallucinating all the time.
There is a false downshifting sound and the rear wheel even jumps up but the gear does not change.

The part about the rear wheel jumping is even more strange, now that I think about it.
It's like the gear is actually engaged for a split second but instantantly jumps out again.

[HornetMaX]

The engine brake does matter in the four strokes because when you count on the engine helping the bike to slow down, you will not make the corner if the engine is still in a too tall gear.

Really ? Nice to know    (look, I can make the eyes too !!)

When you brake with the rear and can't downshift, you don't hear any sound (which is correct, as the current gear can't even disengage).
If you hear a false downshifting sound, it's probably a gear that can't engage (and not the current one that can't disengage), which may be due to something else (the max speed difference, likely, which is unrelated to braking or engine brake).

The rear "jumping" when braking and downshifting hard is totally normal and you can see in many real videos.
Rear unloaded, engine brake makes it slide (even lock, on some occasions), which compresses the rear suspension, which kind of sends it up in the air,  where the suspension extends back, then it falls again on the track etc etc. No bug, it's actually a very nice thing that shows how good GPB physics is.

[Vini]

The rear "jumping" when braking and downshifting hard is totally normal and you can see in many real videos.
Rear unloaded, engine brake makes it slide (even lock, on some occasions), which compresses the rear suspension, which kind of sends it up in the air,  where the suspension extends back, then it falls again on the track etc etc. No bug, it's actually a very nice thing that shows how good GPB physics is.

The bug is that this happens without the gear actually engaging (in these situations I also get the false sound).

[HornetMaX]

The rear "jumping" when braking and downshifting hard is totally normal and you can see in many real videos.
Rear unloaded, engine brake makes it slide (even lock, on some occasions), which compresses the rear suspension, which kind of sends it up in the air,  where the suspension extends back, then it falls again on the track etc etc. No bug, it's actually a very nice thing that shows how good GPB physics is.

The bug is that this happens without the gear actually engaging (in these situations I also get the false sound).

It can happen even if you just shut the throttle and the rear is light enough. To me it's unrelated to the downshift issue(s).

[Vini]

Obviously the rear wheel can jump under braking even when you are not downshifting at all.
I have enough experience in GP Bikes by now that I can tell whether it was caused by downshifting or not.
Look at this video I recorded a while back.
These are examples of two different kinds of rear wheel jumping in direct succession.
On the first braking maneuver, the last downshift to first gear clearly makes the rear wheel jump up and on the second braking maneuver it's just the rear wheel being light and the suspension doing it's thing.


I just thought it might be helpful to know that not only can you get false audio but also completely messed up physics (bike behaves as if the gear was engaged shortly).
Sadly, I don't have a video for this specific situation handy right now.

[HornetMaX]

I just thought it might be helpful to know that not only can you get false audio but also completely messed up physics (bike behaves as if the gear was engaged shortly).
Sadly, I don't have a video for this specific situation handy right now.

Never seen that: if you stumble on it again, you should post the replay (the telemetry too, if possible).

[h106frp]

I noticed an odd one after the first straight at spa- only just started using manual rear brake so still getting used to it.

Too much rear brake so bike wont downshift but pressed down shift a few times- OK fair enough probably would not try this in real life. Let off front brake, turn in and bike down shifts on it own - lose rear - bit strange.

Is it that i have a 'simulated' incomplete downshift that then occurs once the gearbox load is removed or just a bug?

[JJS209]

core.exe feedback:
for me stability is working fine with beta7b.
no cores at all for me until now.

[Daniel_F]

sometimes when i use rly hard front brakes (talking about murasama) also dont downshift but only from 3rd to 2nd and 1st so i belive engine break plays its part there (as rear break) to dont let me downshift,

i belive its engine break because it never happened in the 2t bikes (i belive not 100% sure here)

anyway to downshift a bike with a conventional gearbox you need to use the clutch, if the virtual rider without helps dont use the clutch we shoulnt be able to downshift as we do... and if he does it shoulnt never be a fail downshift cause of the brakes or engine braking