Is a bike actually faster with all electronics OFF

[HornetMaX]

Was it little old Danny Pedrosa that showed just what difference it makes when you don't have electronics governing TC from throttle inputs.... I believe he span-out almost straight away when he opened the throttle not realising that Marquez had cut the TC communication lines on Danny's swingarm. I did have a good old giggle at that. Lol
But it just goes to show that modern riders are not used to genuine throttle control and can get away with greater inputs because of electronic controls. 

Seriously ?

[Hawk]

Was it little old Danny Pedrosa that showed just what difference it makes when you don't have electronics governing TC from throttle inputs.... I believe he span-out almost straight away when he opened the throttle not realising that Marquez had cut the TC communication lines on Danny's swingarm. I did have a good old giggle at that. Lol
But it just goes to show that modern riders are not used to genuine throttle control and can get away with greater inputs because of electronic controls. 

Seriously ?

Yes seriously.... I thought everyone had seen and heard about that happening.... I found the report about it here: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/09/29/pedrosa-crashes-out-after-marquez-touch/162648

Hawk.

[Vini]

I see some value in doing as you said, but what you don't see is that electronics are not as forgiving as you think, otherwise we would see very little crashing in motogp.

To be fair, almost all crashes in MotoGP nowadays are lowsides while on the brakes.
Electronics are forgiving, that is the reason they are being used in MotoGP. They are not necessarily used to be faster but to be consistently fast and to reduce injuries.
Once again, going back to the 990cc electronics would probably be a good compromise.

@Hawk: Pedrosa expected the TC to work but it didn't. There is no way anybody could have saved it in that situation.

....Coming back to GPB: A bit of TC will always make you faster (over multiple laps) but if you have decent throttle control it will be insignificant (it's more about avoiding crashes when on the limit). If you have good throttle control, AW will always make you a bit (and sometimes a lot - wobble/tankslappers) slower, at least that is my experience.
So, I decided to abandon all of those, although sometimes I am tempted to use TC because often you can hold powerslides longer.
Nothing more fun than balancing the front wheel out of corners when riding onboard without AW

[Hawk]

I see some value in doing as you said, but what you don't see is that electronics are not as forgiving as you think, otherwise we would see very little crashing in motogp.

To be fair, almost all crashes in MotoGP nowadays are lowsides while on the brakes.
Electronics are forgiving, that is the reason they are being used in MotoGP. They are not necessarily used to be faster but to be consistently fast and to reduce injuries.
Once again, going back to the 990cc electronics would probably be a good compromise.

@Hawk: Pedrosa expected the TC to work but it didn't. There is no way anybody could have saved it in that situation.

....Coming back to GPB: A bit of TC will always make you faster (especially over multiple laps). If you have good throttle control, AW will always make you a bit (and sometimes a lot) slower, at least that is my experience.
Nothing more fun than balancing the front wheel out of corners when riding onboard

That is true, but I was just pointing out that it was purely because he expected the traction control to be able to compensate for him winding open the throttle as he did that cause him to crash.... In other words it is the TC that allows riders to ride more forgiving bikes which makes them easier to ride fast like you say, faster at a more consistent pace. That's all I was pointing out.... I certainly wasn't suggesting it was Danny's fault, but it was due to electronic nanny expected to be there to help him and it wasn't,  hence the reason he crashed. 

Hawk.

[Vini]

yes, just wanted to make clear that pedrosa's crash doesn't mean that he would not be able to ride the bike fast without electronics.

[Hawk]

yes, just wanted to make clear that pedrosa's crash doesn't mean that he would not be able to ride the bike fast without electronics.

Oh, for sure that I've no doubt that would be true for all the modern MotoGP riders... But MotoGP would be a totally different sport without electronics.... May I say a better more spectacular sport with riders whom would have to learn greater skills to ride as fast and as consistent as they do today. Maybe a little controversial? Hehe.  But I think it's a truism

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

Hawk, even vin has got the Pedrosa point right, but you still haven't.

What happened to him is just identical to riding 15 laps with a 140hp bike and then, all of a sudden, exiting a corner where you can usually open it wide, you have a 245hp bike.
Or riding 15 laps with a given master cylinder on your front brake lever and then, all of a sudden, having one that is 2 sizes bigger or smaller right before a major braking zone.
It brings nothing to your arguments (that are otherwise at least acceptable).

If the electronic nanny () made the riders' life so easy, why do we see these fairly big gaps between riders riding identical bikes ?
Anybody should be able to get a suit and a helmet on and square it out with Vale, Jorge, Marc and the rest, no ?

I agree with vin on his analysis of TC and AW in GPB. But once again, I think real TC and AW on race bikes are better than what we have in GPB (despite GPB having full access to the bike state without any noisy/imprecise sensor).

[Hawk]

Hawk, even vin has got the Pedrosa point right, but you still haven't.

What happened to him is just identical to riding 15 laps with a 140hp bike and then, all of a sudden, exiting a corner where you can usually open it wide, you have a 245hp bike.
Or riding 15 laps with a given master cylinder on your front brake lever and then, all of a sudden, having one that is 2 sizes bigger or smaller right before a major braking zone.
It brings nothing to your arguments (that are otherwise at least acceptable).

If the electronic nanny () made the riders' life so easy, why do we see these fairly big gaps between riders riding identical bikes ?
Anybody should be able to get a suit and a helmet on and square it out with Vale, Jorge, Marc and the rest, no ?

I agree with vin on his analysis of TC and AW in GPB. But once again, I think real TC and AW on race bikes are better than what we have in GPB (despite GPB having full access to the bike state without any noisy/imprecise sensor).

Red: Have you've been down the pub Max or what as you obviously payed no attention to what I said in reply#18........... I am fully aware of why Danny high sided the bike.... even told you that in my initial post about the incident.

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

I wish I had. Because what you wrote *before* your reply #18 is really really hard to believe.

[Hawk]

I wish I had. Because what you wrote *before* your reply #18 is really really hard to believe.

See! 

I can be quite "flippant" at times Max(well most of the time), but I do understand most things even if I don't agree with some crazy modern ideas of progress in MotoGP(hence no respect for electronic nannies at all in sport!) Huh... Progress... That's a laugh! Hehe! 

Hawk.

[doubledragoncc]

Well.................I have started my "No Electronics" fasting and am loving it so far. I have been finding it surprising and went back into beta7 to try some of the bikes I ALWAYS HAD to ride with qually tyres and all electronics on...................I used to not be able to ride without crashing every lap, BUT now I can ride them with hard tyres and no electronics, woohoo!!!

Thanks for the push guys. I might be slower in races to start like this, but I find the bikes far better to ride now and am not pooping me panties at the thought any more lol.

I just had a test in RIDE for some new system parts and OMFG how crap it feels. I mean it feels ok with my controls compared to a gamepad, but it was like riding a whale compared to GPB lol.

I find with NO electronics you are far more AS ONE with the bike.

DD

[Hawk]

Well.................I have started my "No Electronics" fasting and am loving it so far. I have been finding it surprising and went back into beta7 to try some of the bikes I ALWAYS HAD to ride with qually tyres and all electronics on...................I used to not be able to ride without crashing every lap, BUT now I can ride them with hard tyres and no electronics, woohoo!!!

Thanks for the push guys. I might be slower in races to start like this, but I find the bikes far better to ride now and am not pooping me panties at the thought any more lol.

I just had a test in RIDE for some new system parts and OMFG how crap it feels. I mean it feels ok with my controls compared to a gamepad, but it was like riding a whale compared to GPB lol.

I find with NO electronics you are far more AS ONE with the bike.

DD

+1 DD 

You explained it well mate...... Riding a bike as it should be ridden is a bond, a marriage between man and machine at its rawest. Riding with electronic nannies like it is in modern MotoGP is just taking away that bond that feeling you have for the machine your riding.

So finally someone who used to use electronics religiously has finally understood and actually experienced what I've been talking about for years! Hehe. 

Thank you DD... and well done mate! 

Hawk.

[doubledragoncc]

I hope this thread helps others, thats why I did it here and not via PM.

Its all due to the community being as it is. We fight like cats and dogs about things at times but thats how brothers and sisters are in real life!!!

One big happy family lol

DD