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FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018

Started by speedfr, March 16, 2018, 08:10:36 pm

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speedfr

I remenber a certain Loris C. that shoot out (no other words) a Japanese pilot in order to obtain the World title at the end of the race.
He never had any trouble...

And about MM and Austin, yes, he deserves his extra penalty, i know he didn't get the point because of his 30 sec penalty but i should say it's not for Rossi, it's for the entire GP. 3 mistakes.
Cuz, anybody can tell me anything but MM knew that he should have started from the pits, that's the rules forever, even the referre is taking is arm but MM resisted and tried. Gambling is loosing sometimes too.
He should have started from the pits and he won't have so much to take back after.
But is this GP, as a pilot, he did 3 mistakes.
He should have a general penalty for that.
Maybe they gonna take points away from his MotoGP licence...
Missing Gp500 (Microprose)  Testing EDTracker Pro on YT   i7-4790K/16Go/GTX1080/1440p/Full WC

uberslug

After thinking about the MotoGP Shite Show on Sunday, I believe the Race Commissaires are to blame for the collisions Marquez had with other riders [I am not defending Marquez's actions, just offering a different point of view].

Marquez deserved some sort of penalty for stalling at the start line. It was abundantly clear from FP2 that he was faster than everyone else in mediocre conditions [yeah, he made some mistakes in Qualifying but everyone was betting on him for the race win].

Had the commissaires merely implemented a 30 second penalty instead of a ride through there would have been no opportunity for him to run into other riders since he was well clear at the end of lap two and disappearing at an impressive rate. By the time he would have caught the back of the pack the blue flags would have been out and the riders would have been allowing him ample room to pass without him having to shove them out of the way. Marquez probably would have won by 40 seconds [sort of like when VR messed up in Australia in the early 2000s, was assessed a 10 second penalty, ignored it, and won by 12 seconds in order to insure his victory]. Perhaps a 60 second penalty would have been more appropriate and have cost him points.

In reality, the RCs created the dangerous situation and should be punished appropriately. They should have known better than to throw a 55 gallon drum of nitro Marquez onto an open pit fire.

WALKEN

April 11, 2018, 02:21:11 am #77 Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 02:22:52 am by WALKEN
The puzzling part for me is the timing of these moves or justification.

I think when Rossi says Marquez is destroying the sport I think I understand his point? Hard moves are nothing new in MotoGP. But it is becoming more common due to Marquez and his style and comments on having to crash to find the limit.

Timing of a hard move is sometimes justified with in reason due to the results being a title fight for instance, Marquez fighting hard with Rossi at Sepang was for what reason? Same as the hard pass at Argentina, why? Racing like this in the heat of a last race title fight between two rivals may come down to this but its only the second race of the season.

Zarco on Dani, he never made contact but the move was hard and maybe uncalled for, but Zarco is hungry as a rookie for a win so its not a surprise.

Marc is just acting like a dick and very disrespectful to everyone in MotoGP including the fans.

     
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HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2018, 05:27:08 pm
Are you sure you used to watch the GP500 World Championships back in the 70'/80's..... What GP's are you referring too where you saw Roberts and Spencer banging fairings like they do these days? In fact back in the 70's/80's I've never seen the sort of bashing around they get up to these days.  :P
I used to follow and watch them all.... name one as an example and I'll go back and take a look and see if I'm mistaken... but I've a good feeling you can't! :P ;D


http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/

QuoteAugust  7, 1983... Twenty six years ago this coming Friday, Freddie Spencer ran it up the inside of Kenny Roberts in the Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp on the final lap, sending both of them on to the dirt on the exit of the corner. The move was significant in that it gave Spencer the victory, by a scant .16 of a second, and it also gave him a five-point lead going into the final race of the 1983 World Championship. Roberts would win in the San Marino Grand Prix in Imola, Italy almost a month later, but Spencer's second place would give him the title - by just two points."He [Spencer] came up the beside me as we entered the corner," Roberts said after the race. "It looked to me like he couldn't slow down enough, so I changed my line to avoid hitting him and we both went off the track. I was on the outside and went about three feet off the track. He was inside me and only went about a foot off so he got out of the corner first and took the lead. He didn't hit me, but if I hand't taken avoiding action, he would have taken us both down.""Losing on the last lap is part of racing," Spencer said.


Can't find a video, but from the descriptions (multiple available and all agreeing) of the events and the words of the riders, I guess we're all set.

Hawk

April 11, 2018, 07:28:10 pm #79 Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 07:30:02 pm by Hawk
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 04:26:04 pm
Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2018, 05:27:08 pm
Are you sure you used to watch the GP500 World Championships back in the 70'/80's..... What GP's are you referring too where you saw Roberts and Spencer banging fairings like they do these days? In fact back in the 70's/80's I've never seen the sort of bashing around they get up to these days.  :P
I used to follow and watch them all.... name one as an example and I'll go back and take a look and see if I'm mistaken... but I've a good feeling you can't! :P ;D


http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/

QuoteAugust  7, 1983... Twenty six years ago this coming Friday, Freddie Spencer ran it up the inside of Kenny Roberts in the Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp on the final lap, sending both of them on to the dirt on the exit of the corner. The move was significant in that it gave Spencer the victory, by a scant .16 of a second, and it also gave him a five-point lead going into the final race of the 1983 World Championship. Roberts would win in the San Marino Grand Prix in Imola, Italy almost a month later, but Spencer's second place would give him the title - by just two points."He [Spencer] came up the beside me as we entered the corner," Roberts said after the race. "It looked to me like he couldn't slow down enough, so I changed my line to avoid hitting him and we both went off the track. I was on the outside and went about three feet off the track. He was inside me and only went about a foot off so he got out of the corner first and took the lead. He didn't hit me, but if I hand't taken avoiding action, he would have taken us both down.""Losing on the last lap is part of racing," Spencer said.


Can't find a video, but from the descriptions (multiple available and all agreeing) of the events and the words of the riders, I guess we're all set.


Oh c'mon Max. Lol! ;D
I remember that indecent well and we're talking about something totally different in comparison here I sure you. Lol! ;D

If you read your quote above carefully, it is clear that no contact was ever made at all, and as Roberts said, Spencer came up beside him and he had to take avoiding action by altering his line; that's massively different to the likes of MM ramming other riders and causing other riders or indeed himself to crash don't you think? :P ;D

You'll have to do better than that example to show anything like the disgraceful antics that we see today from the likes of MM. But I already know that nothing of the likes of what we see today ever did happen back in the GP's of that era..... I tell you guys, riders had to respect the bikes as well as trust the other riders to ride reasonably sensibly back in those days.... they didn't have electronics to get them out of trouble and the bikes were unforgiving to say the least... It just wasn't worth risking your life over....
Modern MotoGP bikes(not to mention modern tracks) are just too safe and stable nowadays for the good of safety as a whole.... Riders just don't respect the dangers anymore, and they need to know that if they make a mistake then it could be their very last mistake they'll ever make and these days, with all the electronic gadgets to stabilise the bikes performance and handling, that is not so.  :P :)

No wonder most people who can remember how the Motorcycle Grand Prix's used to be in their "Blue Ribbon" glory days think the soul has been ripped out of the sport today.... Even the word "MotoGP" has become synonymous with the disgraceful changes that have ruined motorcycle sport as a whole in the modern era I'm sad to say.  :(

HornetMaX


Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:34:32 pm
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.


Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 07:41:05 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:34:32 pm
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.


Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D


Or to be too old and be oblivious to the way things really were.
One of your hero riders was and still is saying the other went over the line and you say "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair".

Sometimes I wonder why you still watch motogp. Don't like it, don't watch it.

So, again, whatever.

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:46:57 pm
Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 07:41:05 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:34:32 pm
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.


Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D


Or to be too old and be oblivious to the way things really were.
One of your hero riders was and still is saying the other went over the line and you say "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair".

Sometimes I wonder why you still watch motogp. Don't like it, don't watch it.

So, again, whatever.


Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D

What I do say, personally speaking, is that I do agree with Roberts that it wasn't sportsman-like behaviour what Spencer did to him that day to win the 500cc Championship... I think it was a total act of selfish behaviour and not in the spirit of the sport for that era at all, unlike it seems for todays riders in the modern era; they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....

Yes Roberts did say Spencer went way too far, but you have to understand that Roberts was talking from a point of view about riding etiquette of those old classic times(when that sort of behaviour very rarely happened in GP's) and you cannot relate his statement then to what is happening today in the modern era, and certainly not to the sort of antics MM is being accused of.
Remember, no contact was actually made between the two riders at the time..... I'm surprised you cannot see the difference between that incident and the sort of crazy incidents we see these days mate? Absolutely no comparison at all. :o

Just that I thought you were all for the safety of riders, Max? Maybe you should rethink your stance and advocation for computer controlled bikes so modern riders(exception for Rossi. Lol!) can learn again that you can't take such risks on a race-bike without severe consequences? :P ;D

Better still, let's go back to the 2 stroke GP500cc bikes without any electronic wizardry.... Oh yeah! ;D ;D

Oh! Btw.... That last paragraph is a dream.... You can quote me on that. :P ;)

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 pm
What I do say, personally speaking, is that I do agree with Roberts that it wasn't sportsman-like behaviour what Spencer did to him that day to win the 500cc Championship... I think it was a total act of selfish behaviour and not in the spirit of the sport for that era at all, unlike it seems for todays riders in the modern era; they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....

Yes Roberts did say Spencer went way too far, but you have to understand that Roberts was talking from a point of view about riding etiquette of those old classic times(when that sort of behaviour very rarely happened in GP's) and you cannot relate his statement then to what is happening today in the modern era, and certainly not to the sort of antics MM is being accused of.
Remember, no contact was actually made between the two riders at the time..... I'm surprised you cannot see the difference between that incident and the sort of crazy incidents we see these days mate? Absolutely no comparison at all. :o

You're digging your own grave man.
You boldly asked for an example of excessive/unfair/dangerous riding in the 500cc era. You've been given one, in the words of journalists and riders themselves. End of the story.

Nobody is saying MM did well, was right or whatever along these lines.
You're inventing stuff up ("they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races").

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 pm
Just that I thought you were all for the safety of riders, Max? Maybe you should rethink your stance and advocation for computer controlled bikes so modern riders(exception for Rossi. Lol!) can learn again that you can't take such risks on a race-bike without severe consequences? :P ;D

Rider safety is riding on a well designed track, with no inherently dangerous turns and with proper escape ways and track-side safety devices.
Just thought that you were all for the safety of the riders Hawk ... an no wait, you're a big TT fan ...

Stout Johnson

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 pm
Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D

;D indeed, he has a tendency. I remember similar things from the discussion after Sepang Clash.

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 pm
[...] they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....

I think that for sure is a generalization. The majority of riders does have honor and respects the ethics of sports. Just look at all the statements after last sunday's race. The vast majority was very very critical of MM's actions. Or look at how the 4 guys in front bravely but respectfully fought for the win (Zarco didn't do any stupid moves after the Pedrosa incident).

I think the whole discussion concerning the old days does not lead anywhere. Whether or not there was unsportsmanlike behaviour back in the days, whether it was equal, worse or better... I think there will never be a consensus. This discussion would only be fruitful if there was a similar situation of excessive aggressiveness of 1 or 2 riders and if rule changes or actions by the race commission ended up making riders ride safely and respectful again. Then we could argue for certain actions on how to get rid of reckless and dangerous behaviour we have seen recently. Other than that I am afraid, this discussion will be a waste of time.
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HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on April 12, 2018, 07:39:10 am
Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 pm
Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D

;D indeed, he has a tendency. I remember similar things from the discussion after Sepang Clash.


Really ? Here's what Hawk said:

Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 07:28:10 pm
I remember that indecent well and we're talking about something totally different in comparison here I sure you. Lol! ;D

If you read your quote above carefully, it is clear that no contact was ever made at all, and as Roberts said, Spencer came up beside him and he had to take avoiding action by altering his line; that's massively different to the likes of MM ramming other riders and causing other riders or indeed himself to crash don't you think? :P ;D

Just for my understanding: MM went too hard inside Rossi in a slow corner, forcing him down wide, on the grass and finally down.
Spencer went hard inside Roberts and both went out wide in the dirt.

I don't see the big difference between the two (except that MM has admitted the mistake).

Quote from: Stout Johnson on April 12, 2018, 07:39:10 am
Other than that I am afraid, this discussion will be a waste of time.

Can't agree more on that.

Hawk

Lol! ;D
Seems like yet again we'll just have to agree to disagree on our individual opinions on this Max...... We do have a long history of differences of opinion & debating the toss about issues that go nowhere simply because we see things from a totally different point of view.... I see nothing has changed. Lol! ;) 8)

Napalm Nick

I still haven't seen this goddamn race yet. I look forward to reading this whole thread after tho. Must be a good race to kick-start such a long discussion  ;D
"I can't give you a sure-fire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."

Stout Johnson

Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2018, 10:10:25 am
I still haven't seen this goddamn race yet. I look forward to reading this whole thread after tho. Must be a good race to kick-start such a long discussion  ;D

Hope you haven't spoilered it too much for yourself by sniffing in here.  ;)
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