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July 03, 2020, 09:49:53 AM

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Airbag system

Started by JOACKO172, January 10, 2020, 02:55:58 PM

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JOACKO172

Add this to the sim would be good for the replays or graphics in general plus a good ragdoll.

Hawk

Wow! Is there any wonder that riders these days ride like they are invulnerable to any harm.... That together with the electronic control of the bikes cannot be good for overall safety of riders surely?

guigui404

Par pitiƩ faites taire Hawk

Hawk

Quote from: guigui404 on January 11, 2020, 12:02:48 AMPar pitiƩ faites taire Hawk

:o  :o

Truth hurts, eh, guigui404?  ;D :P

It was actually a serious question..... If you make dangerous activities too safe, then is it not the case that it can get to a situation where the participants feel that invulnerable to any harm that they start taking risks that they never would have taken before?

Manu

We cannot live anchored to the past. The world evolves.

It is just my opinion.
It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.

Hawk

Quote from: Manu on January 11, 2020, 11:55:20 AMWe cannot live anchored to the past. The world evolves.

It is just my opinion.

But at what stage does a sport not become a sport, Manu?

I'm all for the world evolving, especially in everyday life or at work to advance things and make things as safe and efficient as possible, but when it comes down to a sport, it's the competitors skills and courage that we want to see tested at the highest levels in competition, and if you implement technologies to make dangerous sports too safe then your taking away a lot of the red-lines that many competitors in the past when that technology wasn't available would definitely not cross through lack of courage or skills to do so..... In my opinion it's taking away the very soul of what sport is all about for an individual, the skills to push the limits without making mistakes, it's what defines the great competitors from the good & ordinary competitors. If you have technologies that allow those with lesser skills and courage to push harder than their natural skills would allow then your destroying the very soul of what the sport is all about surely?

Likewise, this is just my opinion, and also why I'm against implementing technologies that either take away from competitor skill-sets or take away too much of the danger factors within dangerous sports to the extent that it encourages competitors to take risks that they normally would never take had that technology not been there for them.

PS: Other Motorsports seem to be taking steps backwards(F1 for an instance) in combating this kind of issue. MotoGP just seems to ignore what can be learn't from other Motorsports history and continues to pursue an almost anything goes attitude so long as they are winning they don't care what they are doing to the sport at all. Sadly it seems that with each generation of fans it's also becoming an accepted train of thought.... This free-acceptance attitude so long as ones winning certainly doesn't bode-well for MotoGP's future in my opinion or any sport that takes the same attitudes.

matty0l215

It doesn't make you any less of a sportsman because you've got something attached to you that may prevent life-changing injuries. It allows the riders to ride at the speeds they do in the with some knowledge that if they do crash, they are less likely to get hurt

You can't say that top level racing isn't a sport because they've got built-in devices to keep them safe. That's like saying the HANS device that car drivers use does more harm than good. It restricts head movement, however, we haven't had a death in motorsport due to the kind of injuries that they prevent since they became mandatory.

I'd rather see someone in a suit with an airbag than watch them never walk again or potentially die. Simple as

Manu

January 11, 2020, 06:00:04 PM #7 Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:46:32 PM by Manu
Quote from: Hawk on January 11, 2020, 02:45:57 PMBut at what stage does a sport not become a sport, Manu?

All motor sports have evolved respect to safety and technology.
It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.

guigui404

Hawk you upset me so much, could you please try to use your brain a bit and stop living in this "All was better before" world ?

Hawk

Seems your all missing the point I'm making.... That a dangerous sport can actually become more dangerous cause of too many safety implementations, regardless of how efficient they'd be at saving a competitors life if they got into a life-threatening situation. Those implementations can actually make competitors more reckless & dangerous to themselves and others cause they think they won't get hurt. ::)

Ever wondered just why the top real road racers would never win a track GP race, and vice versa, especially in these modern times? Think about it and express your thoughts below, then tell me I'm not using my brain guigui404.  :P  ;)


Manu

January 11, 2020, 08:39:45 PM #10 Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 08:52:58 PM by Manu
In my opinion what you say doesn't make much sense. You say safety makes riders more reckless. That is very subjective.

Safety makes rider safer nothing more. The rider who is reckless will remain so.

What you raise is almost like saying that riders should ride without a helmet and leathers.
It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.

VSMaster

Always on the edge

Hawk

Quote from: VSMaster on January 11, 2020, 09:04:16 PMAgree

Agree to what side of the debate there VSMaster?

Quote from: Manu on January 11, 2020, 08:39:45 PMIn my opinion what you say doesn't make much sense. You say safety makes riders more reckless. That is very subjective.

Safety makes rider safer nothing more. The rider who is reckless will remain so.

What you raise is almost like saying that riders should ride without a helmet and leathers.

Manu. It is based on actual research not just a personal opinion, so it is not subjective at all..... The safer you make an activity the more risk the participants will tend to actually take. That's not to say all participants but certainly those that have the inclination to always push limits rather than those that know their limits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reasonable & sensible safety within sport, especially dangerous sports and especially to protect the spectators from harm, but once sensible and reasonable safety precautions have been implemented, then one has to start asking that if by going any further would safety start to dilute or eat away at the very soul of what the sport is all about which is pitting the skills of one competitor against another based on the abilities of the competitors themselves and not having their skills aided by safety devices or electronic aid technologies ..... When do safety features and technology aids start to actually aid a riders psych and natural skills that they wouldn't otherwise be able to use, and therefore if they use them, are the competitors not gaining a false skill-set they would otherwise not have, which ends up resulting in a false result, a facade and not actually a sport anymore?

Manu

Quote from: Hawk on January 11, 2020, 09:35:34 PMManu. It is based on actual research not just a personal opinion, so it is not subjective at all..... The safer you make an activity the more risk the participants will tend to actually take. That's not to say all participants but certainly those that have the inclination to always push limits rather than those that know their limits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reasonable & sensible safety within sport, especially dangerous sports and especially to protect the spectators from harm, but once sensible and reasonable safety precautions have been implemented, then one has to start asking that if by going any further would safety start to dilute or eat away at the very soul of what the sport is all about which is pitting the skills of one competitor against another based on the abilities of the competitors themselves and not having their skills aided by safety devices or electronic aid technologies ..... When do safety features and technology aids start to actually aid a riders psych and natural skills that they wouldn't otherwise be able to use, and therefore if they use them, are the competitors not gaining a false skill-set they would otherwise not have, which ends up resulting in a false result, a facade and not actually a sport anymore?

I can not agree. The rider's safety and electronic aids are the same for everyone.

You are talking about psychological limits but those limits will still be there even without electronic assistance or rider safety elements.

If everyone has the same conditions, where is the problem?
It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.

Hawk

Quote from: Manu on January 11, 2020, 10:00:37 PM
Quote from: Hawk on January 11, 2020, 09:35:34 PMManu. It is based on actual research not just a personal opinion, so it is not subjective at all..... The safer you make an activity the more risk the participants will tend to actually take. That's not to say all participants but certainly those that have the inclination to always push limits rather than those that know their limits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reasonable & sensible safety within sport, especially dangerous sports and especially to protect the spectators from harm, but once sensible and reasonable safety precautions have been implemented, then one has to start asking that if by going any further would safety start to dilute or eat away at the very soul of what the sport is all about which is pitting the skills of one competitor against another based on the abilities of the competitors themselves and not having their skills aided by safety devices or electronic aid technologies ..... When do safety features and technology aids start to actually aid a riders psych and natural skills that they wouldn't otherwise be able to use, and therefore if they use them, are the competitors not gaining a false skill-set they would otherwise not have, which ends up resulting in a false result, a facade and not actually a sport anymore?

I can not agree. The rider's safety and electronic aids are the same for everyone.

You are talking about psychological limits but those limits will still be there even without electronic assistance or rider safety elements.

If everyone has the same conditions, where is the problem?

Okay.... I'll give you a single brief example:

Take "Traction Control". Before electronics where brought in to control the traction it was a skill riders had to learn, and just how well a rider could use and control their throttle hand and body weight shifting to control the traction of the rear tyre and use that skill would often mark the difference between great riders and ordinary good riders(their all good riders after all).

You say that so long as it's the same for everyone then what is the problem? Well a rider that without traction control who wouldn't be very good with their throttle hand to control the rear traction is now able to by-pass that skill cause the electronics are doing that job for them, and vice versa in that the riders who do have good throttle control abilities are now in a position where that natural skill has been made useless.... So the sport is in a situation where you have less skilled riders able to now compete with the great riders(given a competitive bike to do so) when in reality they shouldn't be able to cause they haven't the real skill to keep up with them, hence I talk about the falsity and the facade of it in all areas of MotoGP nowadays.