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Add a 'one way' WLLINVISIBLE track object for pit lane control

Started by h106frp, June 09, 2020, 11:54:53 PM

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h106frp

As you are working on track objects could an enhanced invisible wall be added that only allows bikes to pass using the face surface normal to control the traffic flow direction?

Main use would be pit lane traffic control i.e. no going out the 'in' lane for qualifying lap cheat

Using a placeable track object would allow easy retrofit to any existing track

matty0l215


Hawk


Myst1cPrun3

+10 this is a must

I just think a lot of modders won't update their tracks to include it as they don't like it

h106frp

If it is implemented as a layout object you can just make a .lyt file, no need to mod the track model or collision files.

Myst1cPrun3

 :-\

If it's in, I wish that it is a requirement in the track files to get it to work in GPB (No 'blockers' track doesn't work etc)

As otherwise people won't even bother with it.

And enforcing it for championships, (what little are left) would be near impossible as I believe people just won't race, as is being highlighted by the more 'realistic' championships

Vini

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on June 10, 2020, 04:58:53 PMpeople just won't race, as is being highlighted by the more 'realistic' championships
What do you mean?

h106frp

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on June 10, 2020, 04:58:53 PM:-\

If it's in, I wish that it is a requirement in the track files to get it to work in GPB (No 'blockers' track doesn't work etc)

As otherwise people won't even bother with it.

And enforcing it for championships, (what little are left) would be near impossible as I believe people just won't race, as is being highlighted by the more 'realistic' championships

Sort of a good question... I would imagine that collisions are generated at the race server and fed back to the clients - if that is the case then it would be the race servers .lyt that is enforced no matter what .lyt the clients employ (this would be the best generally for anti-cheating). As the 'barrier' would be invisible in-game it really should not matter whether the clients have it in their graphical information.

It would also prove useful to the host server if a track is found to be vulnerable to blatant short-cutting, or to shield corners where riders are vulnerable to kamikaze riders 'T' boning them on the exit, the host could drop in suitable deterrant barriers without needing a track mod.

Hopefully after riders have bounced off the barrier a few times they would get the message and give up with the idea of trying to go the wrong way out of the pits. I think it is generally understood that exiting in the wrong direction is not an innocent mistake and just an attempt to get an extra flying lap out of the qualifying tyres and creates chaos in the pitlane and at the pit in entry point.

Myst1cPrun3

I don't know enough about how GP bikes works on the collisions and anti cheat side, as a matter of fact I haven't heard of any anti-cheat at all. I'm not even sure its required, as the biggest cheating that seems to be possible is simply track extending, such as Misano where the most popular version is the version without lap time gates. (resulting in the fastest line being to run off track right out to the gravel) This is despite the fact there is a version of the exact same track that has the gates and works correctly, and yet it isn't used.

Its based off that experience that I suggest it be a necessity for tracks to have this feature.


Quote from: h106frp on June 10, 2020, 05:29:21 PMSort of a good question... I would imagine that collisions are generated at the race server and fed back to the clients - if that is the case then it would be the race servers .lyt that is enforced no matter what .lyt the clients employ (this would be the best generally for anti-cheating). As the 'barrier' would be invisible in-game it really should not matter whether the clients have it in their graphical information.


I do not know enough about hosting in GP Bikes, and indeed the collision modelling to be able to judge or provide suggestions. But I hope something similar to what is suggested can be achieved, as that could solve a fair few issues. The only thing with that is that you'd end up with each person having their own version of the course, and I imagine getting one to override the other may be a bit difficult, as well as the fact this may have to be stored on a cloud or server etc to be accessible. Not too sure on the implementation aspect of that vs having it in the track files Locally.



Quote from: h106frp on June 10, 2020, 05:29:21 PMHopefully after riders have bounced off the barrier a few times they would get the message and give up with the idea of trying to go the wrong way out of the pits. I think it is generally understood that exiting in the wrong direction is not an innocent mistake and just an attempt to get an extra flying lap out of the qualifying tyres and creates chaos in the pitlane and at the pit in entry point.

I have a feeling you under-estimate the community  ;D

Where there is a will there is a way. Just look at ripped mods now.

Quote from: h106frp on June 10, 2020, 05:29:21 PMIt would also prove useful to the host server if a track is found to be vulnerable to blatant short-cutting, or to shield corners where riders are vulnerable to kamikaze riders 'T' boning them on the exit, the host could drop in suitable deterrent barriers without needing a track mod.


For this, I believe it to be a separate issue, but I would like to see something like the track center-line duplicated over the paint lines on the edge of the course in the files, thus marking the edge. (Instead of 1 center line there would be 2 more either side going down the edge of the track and around kerbs etc)
Go over the externals and you get the lap cancelled, or in a race if you gain an advantage you get double the advantage gained added on etc.

h106frp


[/quote]

For this, I believe it to be a separate issue, but I would like to see something like the track center-line duplicated over the paint lines on the edge of the course in the files, thus marking the edge. (Instead of 1 center line there would be 2 more either side going down the edge of the track and around kerbs etc)
Go over the externals and you get the lap cancelled, or in a race if you gain an advantage you get double the advantage gained added on etc.
[/quote]

Please no..... The do not touch the white lines thing in MGPXX is an absolute enjoyment killer - hate it to the point of throwing the controller through the screen because its so badly implemented and hit and miss as to when it will penalise. End up spending the entire lap staring at the white lines and its not easy to judge to the (stupidlevel of) accuracy required in first person view.

 Even the suggested best line often causes you to clip the unseen boundary - usual milestone crap used to cover for the useless off track grip failings as going off the asphalt should create a big enough penalty in itself if the tyre grip modelling worked at all.

Vini

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on June 10, 2020, 04:58:53 PMpeople just won't race, as is being highlighted by the more 'realistic' championships
What do you mean?

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: h106frp on June 10, 2020, 06:21:28 PMPlease no..... The do not touch the white lines thing in MGPXX is an absolute enjoyment killer - hate it to the point of throwing the controller through the screen because its so badly implemented and hit and miss as to when it will penalise. End up spending the entire lap staring at the white lines and its not easy to judge to the (stupidlevel of) accuracy required in first person view.

Even the suggested best line often causes you to clip the unseen boundary - usual milestone crap used to cover for the useless off track grip failings as going off the asphalt should create a big enough penalty in itself if the tyre grip modelling worked at all.

Milestones method isn't perfected, as it seems to run off the COM of the bike rather than tyre contact patch from my testing.

That being said my suggestion was more that this is how real world series, such as MotoGP and Formula 1 manage and police the issue, just adding the lines would give the sim something to reference against.

Done right it should be seamless and obvious when you go over it, but that would come down to how much care the track modders put into drawing the lines. Maybe even going to the back edge of a green painted area behind the kerb (thinking Misano) to still have its functionality, and prevent people taking the p**s, but give some leeway to riders to hopefully take the pressure off. It would be at a modder's discretion. Maybe only getting strict at known hot-spots like the gates implementation mentioned above

Vini

Agree with Mystic here. For some tracks this detection is definitely necessary but the penalty should be a server option.

Maybe put this into a new thread about track limits, though.