Brexit or not ?

[girlracerTracey]

chem-trails

ok, i'm out.

Mentioned by Stout in the first instance not I.

I tend to skip through posts in any forum thread that don't particularly interest me also. I think that's pretty much standard practice these days. Broadening the discussion can sometimes bear some fruit though. That's sometimes how we can learn new facts about the world we live in. 

grT

[Warlock]

A world collective government? 

Sorry to say , but keep dreaming Stout, that will never happen. Countries culture are too different each other. Can you imagine North Corea working toghether with the rest of the world?

For an artist that you are, you seem to be narrow-minded buddy. Do you really think North Corea will be a dictatorship forever? Your question is similar to asking a person in 1914 or 1938 whether he/she could ever imagine France and Germany ever to be part of a collective european organisation like the EU. I don't say it will happen within the next hundred years, it might take several hundred years but in the end countries/governments will move closely together and differences will be marginalized.

I agree it won't come easy and it might only be due to catastrophies, crisis and wars that it will eventually happen (e.g. WW II and Cuban Missile Crisis were important factors in multinational peace treaties) but it will happen sooner or later.

"Countries" are not really different to each other - it is perceptions, religions, languages, political ideologies of people in charge that make a difference. Just look at your country Spain - just compare it 50 years ago with what is Spain now - it is a sharp contrast. Or just look at the world. 500 years ago the most important question was which religion would prevail, 100 years ago the most disputed question was whether socialism or capitalism would prevail. Although those questions still do exist to some degree, they are being marginalized over time. And I think this process will continue over time (although it might be a rocky road), people will sooner or later realize that we all are not that different... I am not naive, I am just analyzing history 

I can look through the history Stout. You are forgetting we are the human race. North Corea its just an example of how we are. There will always be people that wont agree with common rules.
Being an artist doesn't mean i have an utopic mind. I'm not saying i wouldn't like a perfect world but we all can see how the human race is.
We don't kill each other like in medieval wars but our society is in my opinion going worse and worse. More unconcscious and selfish than ever.

[Vini]

[girlracerTracey]

Sometimes mere tears are never quite enough..   

The unexpected consequences of a Club "Bilderberg" exit?


"The Real Brexit "Catastrophe": World's 400 Richest People Lose $127 Billion"

"For all the scaremongering and threats of an imminent financial apocalypse should Brexit win, including dire forecasts from the likes of George Soros, the Bank of England, David Cameron (who even invoked war), and even Jacob Rothschild, something "unexpected" happened yesterday: the UK was the best performing European market following the Brexit outcome."

"This outcome was just as we expected three days ago for reasons that we penned in "Is Soros Wrong", where we said "in a world in which central banks rush to devalue their currency at any means necessary just to gain a modest competitive advantage in global trade wars, a GBP collapse is precisely what the BOE should want, if it means kickstarting the UK economy."

Britain's 15 wealthiest citizens had $5.5 billion erased from their collective fortune Friday after the country voted to leave the European Union. Britain's richest person, Gerald Grosvenor, led the decline with a loss of $1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. He was followed by Topshop owner Philip Green, fellow land baron Charles Cadogan and Bruno Schroder, majority shareholder of money manager Schroders Plc.

It wasn't just Britain: as Bloomberg added overnight, the world's 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday as global equity markets reeled from the news that British voters elected to leave the European Union. The billionaires lost 3.2 percent of their total net worth, bringing the combined sum to $3.9 trillion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. The biggest decline belonged to Europe's richest person, Amancio Ortega, who lost more than $6 billion, while nine others dropped more than $1 billion, including Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor, the wealthiest person in the U.K.

Ironically, it turns out that when George Soros threatened "The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned", what he really meant is "it will make me poorer." And yes, George, the people were warned which is why they voted the way they did. "

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-25/real-brexit-catastrophe-worlds-400-richest-people-lose-127-billion

[h106frp]

The EU leaders are having an emergency meeting to decide how best to punish the UK for exercising a democratic vote and to deter its own citizens for asking for any type of reform; looks like 'project fear' is regrettably going to be one of our last exports to the rest of europe then. Notte to them - the rules for exit are the ones you approved - grow up and deal with it.

As far as I know they are not going to discuss or alter the exit rules, that's just not possible. They just have to roughly settle the guidelines for the comm on the plan (what and when) and the conditions of the future deal with the UK.

Of course, you can't expect them to cut you a deal that is equal or better then the one you currently have: said otherwise, the deal will be worse.
I find this totally normal and not retaliation at all. Joining the EU comes with some burden and some advantages: you leave, you lose both.
As they say in France "On peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre"

Probably the biggest lie (set aside the 350m GBP/week stuff) that the leave camp has told everybody: don't worry, when we leave we'll negotiate a deal, same as before hands down, maybe even better.  Of course, this won't happen. There will be a deal for sure, but the conditions will be worse, because:

• the EU is a club. Like any club, paying members must have some sort of advantage.
• that's what you get when a 60m population state negotiates with a 400m population "state".

There's no punishment, it's just business and common sense. And the fact that this would be the course had been announced multiple times before the ref day: multiple EU leaders made it clear, out is out. No more space for "let's negotiate something special for me because you know, I'm the UK".

chem-trails

ok, i'm out.

Stay, just skip "some" messages

Do not want any special treatment, never did and your welcome to it all. 

[girlracerTracey]

— final point of the Russia initiatives is to make the multipolar world, where all the countries are equal. No more superpowers.

You nailed it in one imo.

One seemingly seeks dominance through global hegemony and the imposition of a single dollar backed monetary system.  The other seeks cooperation between nations based upon international law and supports the freedom of independent currency issuance and independent systems of financial transaction. I  agree unipolar vs multipolar sums up the differences in ideological thinking quite well.

grT

[HornetMaX]

Do not want any special treatment, never did and your welcome to it all.

i didn't mean "you" personally of course, it was about the UK. You mean the UK hasn't been asking (and getting) special treatment from the EU ?

[h106frp]

One of the problems that has led to this situation is that the 'special measures' are not things that UK citizens have asked for but have come from the businesses and banking/service sector that influence government. Most of the opt outs have disadvantaged normal working people compared to their mainland counterparts and it really has not mattered which party and their election promises we have voted in.

I think the only one people agreed we did not want to be a part of was the euro and arguably that is probably justified - in its current form it is causing problems and needs a re-think in a europe where member states economies are so unbalanced.

[HornetMaX]

One of the problems that has led to this situation is that the 'special measures' are not things that UK citizens have asked for but have come from the businesses and banking/service sector that influence government. Most of the opt outs have disadvantaged normal working people compared to their mainland counterparts and it really has not mattered which party and their election promises we have voted in.

I can agree with that, but you'll have to see this with your government

[girlracerTracey]

Highly respected and world renowned journalist John Pilger on Brexit and why the British said "No".

"The majority vote by Britons to leave the European Union was an act of raw democracy. Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media."

"This was, in great part, a vote by those angered and demoralised by the sheer arrogance of the apologists for the "remain" campaign and the dismemberment of a socially just civil life in Britain. The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life. "

"A forewarning came when the Treasurer, George Osborne, the embodiment of both Britain's ancient regime and the banking mafia in Europe, threatened to cut £30 billion from public services if people voted the wrong way; it was blackmail on a shocking scale."

"In the week of the referendum vote, no British politician and, to my knowledge, no journalist referred to Vladimir Putin's speech in St. Petersburg commemorating the seventy-fifth anniversary of Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union on 22 June, 1941.  The Soviet victory - at a cost of 27 million Soviet lives and the majority of all German forces - won the Second World War."

"Putin likened the current frenzied build up of Nato troops and war material on Russia's western borders to the Third Reich's Operation Barbarossa. Nato's exercises in Poland were the biggest since the Nazi invasion; Operation Anaconda had simulated an attack on Russia, presumably with nuclear weapons. On the eve of the referendum, the quisling secretary-general of Nato, Jens Stoltenberg, warned Britons they would be endangering "peace and security" if they voted to leave the EU.  The millions who ignored him and Cameron, Osborne, Corbyn, Obama and the man who runs the Bank of England may, just may, have struck a blow for real peace and democracy in Europe."

http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe

[HornetMaX]

Quite interesting:

[girlracerTracey]

George Soros: "Brexit Makes EU Disintegration Irreversible".

"Just four days ago, the "big guns" when George Soros wrote a Guardian op-ed titled  "The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned" in which he said that "as opinion polls on the referendum result fluctuate, I want to offer a clear set of facts, based on my six decades of experience in financial markets, to help voters understand the very real consequences of a vote to leave the EU." We promptly countered that Soros' set of "facts" may be clouded by his far greater equity stake in interests around Europe, and the globe, which would be drastically impacted by not only a Brexit, but by a European Union which is suddenly on the rocks.  That's precisely what happened when, as we wrote earlier, the world's 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday following the Brexit vote.

Soros was among them.

However, seemingly unhappy that his generously altruistic warning was so roundly ignored by the peasants, not to mention his sudden concern about the future of the European Union whose collapse would also destroy the premise behind Soros' Open Society globalization initiative, the 85-year-old billionaire has decided to follow up with a case of sour grapes and go all in, making another forecast - since his first one was so clearly rejected - and in what may end up roiling markets even more, moments ago Soros said in his second op-ed of the week that the "catastrophic scenario that many feared has materialized, making the disintegration of the EU practically irreversible. Britain eventually may or may not be relatively better off than other countries by leaving the EU, but its economy and people stand to suffer significantly in the short to medium term. The pound plunged to its lowest level in more than three decades immediately after the vote, and financial markets worldwide are likely to remain in turmoil as the long, complicated process of political and economic divorce from the EU is negotiated. The consequences for the real economy will be comparable only to the financial crisis of 2007-2008."

But while Soros is lukewarm on the UK, his forecast about Europe is far more dire.."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-25/george-soros-brexit-makes-eu-disintegration-irreversible

[Stout Johnson]

Quite interesting:

Very interesting MaX. I would not have expected it to be that heterogeneous. So the same referendum in 1-2 years time would probably have had a different outcome... due to natural reasons... 

[Hawk]

Quite interesting:

Very interesting MaX. I would not have expected it to be that heterogeneous. So the same referendum in 1-2 years time would probably have had a different outcome... due to natural reasons... 

It's also very interesting that those that voted remain have never known anything different than life under the EU, so what does that tell you? 

But to be honest I'm disgusted with the way the MP's and journalists that are obviously pissed off with the result to leave are trying to spread SO much doom and gloom now as if to prove that what they were saying in the campaign is true!! 
If I had my way I would dissolve the government and go for a general election right now to get rid of those MP's that are currently throwing their toys out of the pram in protest at the result of the referendum........  And I've also noticed that these people are all of a sudden saying that they represent the people who voted to remain - Haha!! I mean what's happened to democratic decisions all of a sudden, eh! Suddenly they want to act like there is proportional representation yet when that was proposed they all slapped it down! BLOODY HYPOCRITES!!! Let's go for a general election and get rid of these B*stards and get people into government who really want to work for a better UK outside the EU! 

Personally I'd string those vindictive MP's up on London Bridge for spreading so much doom and gloom.... It's tantamount to TREASON!! 

And were is that disgusting little Tory Chancellor(Osbourne) since the result was announced? He should have been kicked down the road by now just like Cameron - at least Cameron had the balls to dip out when he should've done. 

But the Media is really showing the difference in attitudes between the financial lepers that dominated the London Remain vote and the rest of the country.... The media need to start interviewing people who live outside of London then we may start getting a balanced outlook on how the country as a whole is feeling!

But yeah... I really wonder why the media is not hounding for the Chancellors head too; it's not like the media to not go after an MP's head like this... something is very amiss there as hardly anything is being made of wanting the chancellor to resign too like they should be doing, WTF is going on there, eh?? Probably been told to leave him alone because the financial institutes have warned of financial collapse if the chancellor has to resign? Kick his arse down the road I say!! LOL! 

Hawk.

[Napalm Nick]

Agree Hawk. Disgusting. Even London select asking for independance and to stay in EU.  Really shows what we all know that they dont give a shit about people outside of London.

Posting quotes from media spinners is a waste of time for everyone.

Ages? Don't remember my vote being linked with my age how did they know? So I guess it is a statistic borne from geolocation? More statistical spin and bollox.
If anything it shows older people understand what democracy means. What was sacrificed to even allow these people to have the freedom to vote. Seems by those results the youngsters admit they don't really give a shit about any of that.

These people asking for a rerun of the vote - disgusting! As they don't believe in democracy might as well take their vote count off them altogether.