I find it impossible to go as fast as I would like to without using the rear brake!
I find the advantage of using the rear brake is too strong in gpbikes, it closes corner trajectory too much in my opinion..
Id like to be able to do the same without the rear brake..
I use it many times a lap depending the track. I use it especially to close the trajectories. I use an analog button, and think it is very hard with another.
Hi janau
Yes I use rear brake alot now in GPB.. Thats my point. I dont want to use it! :D
I rarely use it in real life.. I Only touch it now and again, it can help stabilize the bike. Also keep the front wheel down.
But I dont touch it in corners!
I think the rear brake has too much influence in GPB. But thats just my preference.. Others may enjoy using it!
So my suggestion/wish is to back the rear brake influence off a little bit! :D
I have to say the only time I use the rear bike at all is by mistake.
i never used it when i started but now i can go much faster if i use rear brake.. i dont like that :(
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 10, 2014, 12:57:50 AM
Hi janau
Yes I use rear brake alot now in GPB.. Thats my point. I dont want to use it! :D
I rarely use it in real life.. I Only touch it now and again, it can help stabilize the bike. Also keep the front wheel down.
But I dont touch it in corners!
I think the rear brake has too much influence in GPB. But thats just my preference.. Others may enjoy using it!
So my suggestion/wish is to back the rear brake influence off a little bit! :D
true
I constantly use the rear brake since it will save me more than a few tenths a lap. I would rather not use it since it also makes me fall off occassionaly but the benefits outweight the downsides by a lot.
As I always understood it, the rear brake is almost never used like we do it in GPbikes, to tighten the corners. As bob mentioned, it will create more stability when braking (that is what i see the Motogp guys do) but i never see them using it in the corners. Not using it in Gpbikes means it will be very hard to be competitive and that is why I use it. Lowering the effect of the rear brake is fine with me since that will probably be more realistic.
You explained it much better!
Thanks ivolution! ;)
It is popular wisdom that rear brake is almost never used in motogp, but this may not be completely true.
For example: http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/206838/1/thumb-brake-appears-on-final-day-of-honda-test.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/206838/1/thumb-brake-appears-on-final-day-of-honda-test.html)
MaX.
Yeah thumb brakes are excellent! Alot of road racers use them especially at the TT.
Quicker to react with your thumb over crests when the front wheel lifts! Also more control with the thumb..
Lots of riders use the rear brake but it doesnt magicly tighten your line through a corner to the extent that it does in GPB!
In some ways it reminds me of SBKX for the xbox.. You had to hold down the rear brake to get around the corner competatively..
Not realistic..
In GPB iv adjusted the rear brake so I can use the X button (360 pad) with deadzone, smooth, gain etc.
It works well but im dependant on it now.. I dont like it..
Casey Stoner did use a lot of rear brake , even exiting the corner. Some people dont use it at all, some do use it.
Quote from: Warlock on September 10, 2014, 08:49:18 PM
Casey Stoner did use a lot of rear brake , even exiting the corner. Some people dont use it at all, some do use it.
It was my impression too, it's a personal preference, even if it may swing a bit over the years (depending on the bikes/rules etc).
MaX.
Point is.. If I dont use the rear brake im about 1second slower over a lap!
It shouldnt make that much of a difference if you use it or not..
Maybe a different setting that fit better for your style (without rear) can do the trick, maybe a more oversteering setup, don't know...
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 10, 2014, 09:12:42 PM
Point is.. If I dont use the rear brake im about 1second slower over a lap!
It shouldnt make that much of a difference if you use it or not..
Well, I don't know ... if rider X uses it it's surely because he feels faster using it. How much faster is hard to say, but if they go as far as mounting a thumb rear brake because it's handier / has more sensitivity than a pedal, then ...
MaX.
Yes I agree its personal preference if you use it, feel faster with it..
Original point was I dont think the rear brake in real life is as usefull as it is in GPB! In terms of tightening your line..
Try it for yourself..
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 10, 2014, 09:35:59 PM
Yes I agree its personal preference if you use it, feel faster with it..
I meant in real life, not in GPB.
I can easily trust you when you say that in real life you don't go that much faster thanks to the real brake. But that's you on your bike.
Not sure I'll be happy to extend this to Marquez/Pedrosa on their bikes :)
If rear brake was so irrelevant in motogp, they wouldn't even put it on the bike (well, maybe they have for safety reasons, don't know).
MaX.
Lol I meant in real life too! ;)
Some riders use it. Some dont. We all agree on that..
All im saying is.. On GPB mid corner the rear brake helps the bike close the trajectory far too much.. Imo.
Im not saying take the rear brake out of GPB or that it doesnt have that effect in real life..
At the moment in GPB you have to use it because the advantage is huge..
If the advantage was the same in real life, everybody would use the rear brake mid corner to slingshot the bike to the apex lol
Interesting subject :)
People debated me for years about rear braking, saying it isn't realistic. Well I'm pretty sure you can drag your rear into the apex if your good enough (in real life). It may cause flat spots in the tire if you abuse the technique.
Power sliding/rear braking were notorious in the 2 stroke arena...
I believe it to be very difficult to translate reality in a virtual sense without "getting away" with things that seem unnatural in reality hence the shear lack of danger in virtual.
But saying that, GPBikes is a simulation not someone's idea of reality rather real physics, so I would imagine a great understanding of physics would explain the oddities.
Hi Walken
I agree with all of that! Some people trail brake and even back it into corners with the rear brake.. Think its called ''kiddie skidding'' not a joke.. Real technique alongside using the clutch to back it in. Good aggressive way of scrubbing speed off. Sometimes its a good idea to use the rear brake to slow the rear wheel down if you dont have a slipper clutch to.
Im litterally just talking about Mid corner though!
The rear brake mid corner helps to close the trajectory a bit too much imo.
Everywhere else the rear brake seems about right to me.. Its Just mid corner you touch rear brake and the bike turns on a knife edge!
But as always, if im wrong about this, im happy to stand corrected!
Im just writing down my thoughts.. :D
Something to consider-
"Touch the back brake
When your speed is just a little bit too fast for feeling comfortable, simply touch the back brake. Not hard of course, but just gently touch it with your foot. Your motorcycle will steer even more into the corner and will not try to straighten up, so touching the back brake is never a problem for your line, and for cornering fluently."
http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/#brake
Yes rear brake will help you.
In GPB the rear brake helps too much lol.
Ps. Im struggling to describe exactly what I mean so I apologise if I come across as a ''know it all'' lol
hehe don't worry BOB, it's clear enough what you are saying ;)
And thinking of this,...... i would say, yes probably. If in real life helps that much all riders would use it. But, are we sure motogp riders don't use it ?
I know what you mean Bob.
Like in the PS2 version of MotoGP 07 (Milestones first outing with Capcom) The trick was to hold the rear brake "through" the entire corner to hold as tight to the rumbles as possible. The rear brake never locked it just put even pressure on. Accelerating against the rear brake. Kinda like that?
I can't imagine this in reality but then again MotoGP riders are beyond reality sometimes so who knows what tricks are possible?
Thinking deeper into it, it could be a case of holding the front down by forcing the throttle against the rear brake, maybe making for a controlled exit? Using the suspension to your advantage in an odd manner?
Well... "Stone the crows!".... I've never used the rear brake in GPB....... I've always wondered why I can't get through corners as fast as some other guys. Lol :P ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Warlock on September 11, 2014, 03:02:37 AM
But, are we sure motogp riders don't use it ?
Actually we are sure of the opposite: some of them use it.
And judging by the fact Honda seems to try stuff on rear brake, they must be using fairly often.
@BOBR6: do you feel the effect mid turn to be excessive on all the bikes ?
MaX.
yes, all the bikes.. rear brake saves the day lol. i have to use it now.. it sucks lol
i have never used the rear brake on the track in a corner, in real life!
its only in some situations good to get the bike stable and we do not need to discuss that the rear brake in gpb is everything else than real.
Are you saying you think the rear brake is spot on in gpbikes?
no, i am saying that its totaly worse im comparison with the real life. it has 300% effect in GPB.
So your saying the rear brakes in GPBikes are way stronger than on a real life motorcycle? Which bike in real life with what engine and type of brake, carbon or steel? I have never had the pleasure to ride Rossi's Honda NSR500 so I couldn't tell you how it compares in real life but I could in GPBikes but once again that would be a faults opinion as I have nothing to compare.
I never quite could understand the logic of reality vs virtual, the variables are so great that it comes down to physics to create the reality of a simulation parallel to reality in itself.
The distance is the interaction between you and the equipment.
Lets face it, at best you are using a remote control to drive a virtual bike on a virtual track hence RC racing IMO... There are no proper simulated bike controllers to take advantage of Piboso's simulation atm... Also simulation would mean 100% first person pov where as most people use 3rd person...
Even if the physics are perfect vs reality I still think you can manipulate setting etc to make for a faster way around the track due to lack of proper equipment to mirror the simulation itself hence the conclusion of ideas and thoughts/feelings of right and wrong.
Head tracking/rider movement virtual reality full on bike controller similar to F1 wheels /pedals etc then maybe we can discuss what is real or feels real oppose to reality in a virtual sense. Make sense?
Billiards is simple to simulate physics wise but you'll never truly be able to manipulate or articulate your shots due to the lack of not having a pool stick in your hand, but that doesn't mean that the physics are off.
One huge factor in virtual reality is no resistance.
Great read walken! I fully understand and agree with what your saying!
I guess all the tools are there in GPB. I could simply not use the rear brake or even configure the brake to have little impact when I press the button..
I guess GPB is a simulator so its down to us to ride/control the bike in a realistic way..
Trouble is.. The competative side in me wants to get around the track as fast as possible.. Iv found that hammering the rear brake hear there and everywhere really helps me get around the track much faster than without using it.
So all im saying is I dont like the fact that it allows me to do that!
I wouldnt say its a physics problem but more to do with the control input.
Id like to see the rear brake restricted as to what it can do! Because at the moment I use the rear brake everywhere to help me turn, in all situations.. Which I think is unrealistic!
Man.. This is gettin heavy!! Haahahaha ;D
in GP1 it was all rear brake (0 rear brake). Slam and drag to apex, double tap and slide on exit. It was fact that this approach was fastest.
I always tried to make the developers understand that simulating a RC motorcycle would make for a perfect combination of virtual reality and game pad.. Due to the fact that a proper bike simulation controller does not exist the game pad is closest to a RC controller and for the most part people run 3rd person, again hence RC simulation not reality.
My main mission at the launch of any bike game was to find the fastest way to set it up or trick it some how unnatural to get faster laps. Running these arcade offerings actually ruined me as a sim rider due to climbing the leader boards... But as I mentioned I believe the right way to simulate that approach is to simulate an RC vehicle.
But in relation to Piboso's simulation I really feel you need a proper controller with motion tracking etc to feel the real effects of the programing?
Just a thought on this subject.....
Maybe the difference in GPB beta5/b is that at this time you can use the rear brake to pull you round a corner, but at the same time it slows you down compared to real life motogp "rear wheel steer" round a corner which maintains a higher speed through the corners. Does this make sense?
What I'm saying is that I suspect that if in real life motogp, rear wheel steer wasn't possible, then real life motogp riders would probably be using the same rear wheel braking technique to pull the bike through the corners as some of you faster GPB guys are and have been doing...... This is just a thought that came to mind, but it seems to make sense... well it makes sense to me. Lol :P
Hawk.
Quote from: WALKEN on September 11, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
So your saying the rear brakes in GPBikes are way stronger than on a real life motorcycle? Which bike in real life with what engine and type of brake, carbon or steel? I have never had the pleasure to ride Rossi's Honda NSR500 so I couldn't tell you how it compares in real life but I could in GPBikes but once again that would be a faults opinion as I have nothing to compare.
yes im saying that the rear brakes in gpbikes are stronger than in real life, maybe not stronger but the effect is bigger.
and it was a yamaha r6 rj15 ('06-today).steel... lol
Quote from: Hawk_UK on September 11, 2014, 10:13:11 PM
Just a thought on this subject.....
Maybe the difference in GPB beta5/b is that at this time you can use the rear brake to pull you round a corner, but at the same time it slows you down compared to real life motogp "rear wheel steer" round a corner which maintains a higher speed through the corners. Does this make sense?
What I'm saying is that I suspect that if in real life motogp, rear wheel steer wasn't possible, then real life motogp riders would probably be using the same rear wheel braking technique to pull the bike through the corners as some of you faster GPB guys are and have been doing...... This is just a thought that came to mind, but it seems to make sense... well it makes sense to me. Lol :P
Hawk.
Exploiting a loophole is a rule of thumb for any pro in any instance ;) unless otherwise arranged, its near impossible to have a even playing field.
Quote from: JJS209 on September 11, 2014, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on September 11, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
So your saying the rear brakes in GPBikes are way stronger than on a real life motorcycle? Which bike in real life with what engine and type of brake, carbon or steel? I have never had the pleasure to ride Rossi's Honda NSR500 so I couldn't tell you how it compares in real life but I could in GPBikes but once again that would be a faults opinion as I have nothing to compare.
yes im saying that the rear brakes in gpbikes are stronger than in real life, maybe not stronger but the effect is bigger.
and it was a yamaha r6 rj15 ('06-today).steel... lol
Well there you go. If you ride a Yamaha R6 in real life and feel the brakes are stronger in GPBikes using the R6 then just adjust them to be the same as real life and go slower than Bob, lol...
Quote from: Hawk_UK on September 11, 2014, 10:13:11 PM
Just a thought on this subject.....
Maybe the difference in GPB beta5/b is that at this time you can use the rear brake to pull you round a corner, but at the same time it slows you down compared to real life motogp "rear wheel steer" round a corner which maintains a higher speed through the corners. Does this make sense?
What I'm saying is that I suspect that if in real life motogp, rear wheel steer wasn't possible, then real life motogp riders would probably be using the same rear wheel braking technique to pull the bike through the corners as some of you faster GPB guys are and have been doing...... This is just a thought that came to mind, but it seems to make sense... well it makes sense to me. Lol :P
Hawk.
Hi hawk
Since iv been on GPB iv found its all about getting stopped and turned.
Corner speeds seem slow. Almost like the scale of tracks etc is too small like theres no space to open the throttle.. Thats how it feels to me im not saying thats how it is..
Having said that beta5b feels more alive to me! Lean angle revs etc has deffinately made the bikes feel more agile and natural.
Roll on beta6! Booom!! Cant wait now lol
Just to point out that this is all personal feeling and opinion! Im not on the forum to say this and that is how it should be lol. Simply putting things out there.. ;)
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 11, 2014, 10:30:25 PM
Roll on beta6! Booom!! Cant wait now lol
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 11, 2014, 10:43:39 PM
Just to point out that this is all personal feeling and opinion! Im not on the forum to say this and that is how it should be lol. Simply putting things out there.. ;)
Guess we all agree with your opinion about beta6 :)
MaX.
I'm surprised you are only now talking about this rear break in gp-bikes :) I'm talking about it since the first alpha.
Since the lastest beta, Piboso have reduced the effect and the power of this rear break, but i'm agree with you, the effect is always too much important on two steps of the driving.
It's too much at the end of the breaking distance and in slow corners (180°) in my opinion.
But now, in long and mid curves, i think it's correct
In real life, i use a lot the rear break (teacher = daddy and daddy = not bad mx rider). For me it's a very important part in motorcycle driving. And without my rear break i'm not in safe in fact :)
I'm not a very good driver as motogp drivers, so maybe Leon Camier could convince you : http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=Camier-uses-dirt-track-to-change-riding-style-for-MotoGP&newsid=12953
If it's a big difference for him at this step of the competition, then it's certainly a very big step for us no ?
Hello, I´m quite new to GP-bikes...but I noticed an issue with rear brake....i would like to use it to keep my front wheel down while accelerating...but it doesnt work. It has zero effect while wheeling....i use analog for controling it. Do you experience this as well? thx
Quote from: QuentinUW on September 14, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
Hello, I´m quite new to GP-bikes...but I noticed an issue with rear brake....i would like to use it to keep my front wheel down while accelerating...but it doesnt work. It has zero effect while wheeling....i use analog for controling it. Do you experience this as well? thx
Yes......in beta 5b the bike is wheeling extreme.......i think beta 6 will be better ;)
Quote from: Abigor on September 14, 2014, 09:47:22 AM
Quote from: QuentinUW on September 14, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
Hello, I´m quite new to GP-bikes...but I noticed an issue with rear brake....i would like to use it to keep my front wheel down while accelerating...but it doesnt work. It has zero effect while wheeling....i use analog for controling it. Do you experience this as well? thx
Yes......in beta 5b the bike is wheeling extreme.......i think beta 6 will be better ;)
I dont have problem whith wheelies, but with rear brake not functioning to put the wheel down....
Quote from: QuentinUW on September 14, 2014, 10:32:47 AM
Quote from: Abigor on September 14, 2014, 09:47:22 AM
Quote from: QuentinUW on September 14, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
Hello, I´m quite new to GP-bikes...but I noticed an issue with rear brake....i would like to use it to keep my front wheel down while accelerating...but it doesnt work. It has zero effect while wheeling....i use analog for controling it. Do you experience this as well? thx
Yes......in beta 5b the bike is wheeling extreme.......i think beta 6 will be better ;)
I dont have problem whith wheelies, but with rear brake not functioning to put the wheel down....
ok....if you dont have problem whith wheelies why you need rear brake :o
About the use of rear brake in motoGP:
It depends a lot on the rider but a lot of riders use it to:
- "tighten" their line when they are too wide in a corner (because grabbing the front brake in that situation usually results in a lowside)
- control wheelies and traction in general when accelerating - Dani Pedrosa is known to be a very obvious example of this. This video for example shows it well, he uses it throughout the acceleration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyNCr-98ZU
I have seen other riders do it during the replays sometimes.
Generally speaking, the slow motion replays are great to look at the use of the rear brake.
Quote from: EdouardB on September 14, 2014, 01:19:05 PM
About the use of rear brake in motoGP:
It depends a lot on the rider but a lot of riders use it to:
- "tighten" their line when they are too wide in a corner (because grabbing the front brake in that situation usually results in a lowside)
- control wheelies and traction in general when accelerating - Dani Pedrosa is known to be a very obvious example of this. This video for example shows it well, he uses it throughout the acceleration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyNCr-98ZU
I have seen other riders do it during the replays sometimes.
Generally speaking, the slow motion replays are great to look at the use of the rear brake.
ok, correction...i woudnt have had problem with wheelies, if rear brake would work to put front wheel down. does anyone else experience this problem?
Quote from: QuentinUW on September 14, 2014, 05:23:04 PM
ok, correction...i woudnt have had problem with wheelies, if rear brake would work to put front wheel down. does anyone else experience this problem?
Wheelings in beta5 seems to be a bit excessive, likely the situation will improve with beta6.
Notice however that for the me rear brake is effective against a wheelie, at least against a "slow" one (like the one at the end of the straight on Victoria with the 990).
Of course, the rear brake won't help much if you open the throttle fully in 2nd gear at the right RPM ...
MaX.
Rear brake bringing wheelies down is ok. Good example Max with victoria!
As said wheelies are a bit excessive on beta5b anyway..
Done many laps over the wkend.. Now I find the rear brake is actually not too bad on the 1000's lol.
500's & 250cc are the bikes where the rear brake is a must!
Also I wasnt saying nobody uses the rear brake! I was saying the rear brake closes trajectory too much.
Eg. On the brakes going into a tight turn, keep braking up to the apex, mid corner do nothing but turn, then back on throttle on the exit. Thats fine!
Long sweeping bends on the 500 the rear brake helps keep a tight line a little too much going around the corner.. Imo.
Should be able to do it with the throttle!
We all know (or should know) if you are going wide you use rear brake not the front brake and that some riders incorporate the rear brake in their riding. But thats not what the topic is about.
Right BOB, your thoughts were clear to me, but the discussion somehow deviated after iVolution saying "As I always understood it, the rear brake is almost never used like we do it in GPbikes, to tighten the corners".
Now, too much effect or not, I surely can't comment on this but likely, none of us could ... at least not for the 990 :)
MaX.
I guess this topic is irrelevent now..
I only know how to ride my bike.. Not a grand prix bike.
Besides there is plenty of guys much faster than me on gpbikes! So im talking about my own limits.. We need more feedback off the faster guys!
One thing I love about gpbikes is that its hard to realize how fast you can go! Such as real life..
Comon mistake I always make on GPB is braking to much or hanging onto the brake too long.. All makes sense when you let go of the brake lol
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 14, 2014, 09:38:55 PM
I guess this topic is irrelevent now..
I only know how to ride my bike.. Not a grand prix bike.
Besides there is plenty of guys much faster than me on gpbikes! So im talking about my own limits.. We need more feedback off the faster guys!
One thing I love about gpbikes is that its hard to realize how fast you can go! Such as real life..
Comon mistake I always make on GPB is braking to much or hanging onto the brake too long.. All makes sense when you let go of the brake lol
The part about realizing how fast one can go. Using GPBikes after playing a console game is hard to accept reality. But as you mentioned, "like in real life" who knows the fastest way around? I would imagine any console gamer would write it off as having terrible physics as it doesn't suit the user friendly crowd...
I would imagine if enough dedication was applied to GPBikes then maybe a few riders can really tap into the fine tuning of finding the limit of bike and track. But first there is that lack of proper controller holding it all back...
I may go buy a flight stick as that would be closer to reality than a game pad...
But the rear brake thing I think is hard to tell a true story because 4 strokes and 2 strokes are very different beasts...
I must also bring an idea or thought that adapting is the true challenge to over come regardless of how awkward it may first feel... Like people using 3rd person view, it becomes 2nd nature and the reality is first person, and should be used if your using GPBikes as a simulation. With that being said most people will go faster using 3rd person as its not realistic hence the idea of opinion possibly being ill in a feed back situation...
Well said! I agree..
You should change your name to.. The Oricle! ;) 8)
I do enjoy GPB in first person! Id like the view dropped down a bit like beta4 again though.. But like you say most are faster with 3rd person, which isnt realistic.
I have to say using cockpit view the physics seem brilliant, especially on the brakes!
3rd person view we all compare to games..
For me I think the biggest problem is I am a helmet view only guy. But a lot of people use 3rd person, so in that they assume everyone else is. Then they try to make passes maybe they shouldn't. Assuming that the other person is in 3rd person and would see them. Where in helmet view there isn't enough audio queues, for distance and left and right. You can't tell where someone is next to you. Also if we had TracKIR (Or simular, I own TrackIR 5 so I mentioned that one) support would make it so I could glance my head to either side quickly without looking totally behind me. :)
Yeah I agree its tricky when its helmet view vs 3rd person!
Id like to take part in 1 of stout's onboard events.. That way its better.. Dont need to know where people are. Its up to them to pass cleanly! As long as u stick to the racing line its all good!
I had my controls set up so I can look L/R while onboard.. But sometimes slip the clutch in doing so hahaha
I guess you used up all the controller klax?
I'm trying right now using the D-Pad left and right to glance left and right. Only thing is with DST I'm spending a lot of time not to let the bike fall over so I'd only be able to glance when in a straight. Not when people are trying to out brake you.
Only other thing I can think of, other then having 3 monitors. lol Is when Beta 6 comes out with auto rider lean with manual override then you could possibly use one of your buttons on the X-Box controller to glance without worrying about not being tucked in, or taking your thumb off the steering stick.
A solution is to use a PS3 pad and Motion in Joy an utilize sixaxis to lean and the left toggle to see left/right and maybe your right thumb stick for rider movement.
Master that in first person and then see how the rear brake feels, lol... I must confess it is quite difficult!
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 15, 2014, 01:22:26 AM
Yeah I agree its tricky when its helmet view vs 3rd person!
Id like to take part in 1 of stout's onboard events.. That way its better.. Dont need to know where people are. Its up to them to pass cleanly! As long as u stick to the racing line its all good!
Exactly
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 15, 2014, 01:22:26 AM
Yeah I agree its tricky when its helmet view vs 3rd person!
Id like to take part in 1 of stout's onboard events.. That way its better.. Dont need to know where people are. Its up to them to pass cleanly! As long as u stick to the racing line its all good!
Well, it's up to them to pass you cleanly even in 3rd person, or at least it should be :)
MaX.
Lol, indeed ;D
lol ;)
Quote from: Klax75 on September 15, 2014, 01:11:31 AM
For me I think the biggest problem is I am a helmet view only guy. But a lot of people use 3rd person, so in that they assume everyone else is. Then they try to make passes maybe they shouldn't. Assuming that the other person is in 3rd person and would see them.
True.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 15, 2014, 01:22:26 AM
Yeah I agree its tricky when its helmet view vs 3rd person!
Id like to take part in 1 of stout's onboard events.. That way its better.. Dont need to know where people are. Its up to them to pass cleanly! As long as u stick to the racing line its all good!
Nice to hear people being in favor of onboard only. I will soon start a new race, just very very busy atm.
Generally speaking, I also have made the experience that in onboard view all overtake maneouvers are taken with much more care. As this is supposed to be a simulator, I would also like to see crashes resulting in at least a compulsorily restart from pits, so people think twice before making a dumb move. People have a tendency to try to "rip off" spectacular moves and overtakes, just like playing an arcade video game. For me, I only start overtake maneouvers (whether race or practice doesn't matter) when I know the risk is calculated and there is a high probability of not crashing while trying.
For my personal taste, trying to establish GPB as a true sim, options need to be implemented for making crashes more "painful" - but I don't root for getting scratch marks or broken collar bones ;) I just would like to see options for "compulsorily restart from pits" (imo for practice, qualifying, warmup sessions) and for "compulsory termination / longer reset times after crash" for races. At the moment fast riders can make up the time lost in crashes within sometimes 1-2 laps. Imo, a crash should pretty much always mean to not be able to win compared to a rider who manages to not crash at all.
When this would be implemented, riders would be rewarded for taking calculated risks only, which is what real racing is all about. Atm, riders have a tenedency to just race "all out". But race replays often look bad, because there are not many close battles or overtakes on the track. Most of the time overtakes are due to one rider falling and the other one(s) overtaking while the crashed rider is on the ground.
I suggested several months ago but my post seems to have slipped away and no one comment. Anyway my idea was we have limited number of tires opens. We can't we have limited number of falls option?
In first person shooter terms it would be a life. So if I fall, that is one bike gone. The host could set the number of bikes you are allowed, per session. Practice could be unlimited, 3 bikes for qualifying, 2 for race, etc.
My original post
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=965.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=965.0)
The region section was put in with Beta 5/5b, you just have to fill it in yourself. :)
or make it really harsh like British superbikes lol. bike goes down.. game over lol
Quote from: Klax75 on September 15, 2014, 10:36:30 AM
In first person shooter terms it would be a life. So if I fall, that is one bike gone. The host could set the number of bikes you are allowed, per session. Practice could be unlimited, 3 bikes for qualifying, 2 for race, etc.
Let's see how many people will finish a race with limited bikes whilst there are only a few that do it in the current situation. I would love bike damage in some form but I am affraid that it will be too harsh for unexperienced players and will end up with a situation where finishing a race automatically results in a spot on the podium. Aside from this, having multiple bikes during a race is not really realistic and having a crash during the race knocking you out will create a lot of frustration, especially when it is not your fault.
If we are talking realism anyway... I would rather see the "walk to bike" option from SBK2001 where you would have to run back to the bike once you crash it. Although hard for piboso to implement (walking system and a bunch of other animations), this would definitely keep you more immersed in the experience and having a big crash usually means you have to walk further as well.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on September 15, 2014, 10:52:54 AM
or make it really harsh like British superbikes lol. bike goes down.. game over lol
Once Piboso has got the bike handling mechanisms fully implemented so we can adjust to a stable setup like real life then I'd absolutely agree with you, and it would stop this Kamikaze attitude of always riding well over the limits knowing that if you fall you can just get back on and continue the race.... In real life that just doesn't happen 99% of the time. :)
Hawk.
At the moment, 'crash and out of race' is not a good idea due physics issues. What would you think if you crash during a race in a slow corner because steering unrealistically closes, or just slide with no reason, or unexpected crash due track camber, or touch a curb....
The sim is not ready yet for hardcore mode.
Agreed! Its annoying enough crashing from a mistake.. Crashing from a WTF moment resulting in retirement would leave me without a monitor lol.
But im all for some sort of punishment in the future to add to the danger element!
Would be good as a option in a hardcore server.
Not good if you just want to have a bit of fun and finish a race.
My idea would be the host of the event can set the number of bike respawns. So it could be unlimited, 10, 5, 3, 1, or what ever number you want. On a per session bases. We have the same thing right now with tires. You can set limited tires.
Not saying ever server should use it, more for special events. :)
I'm not for walking to your bike, although I'd like it. Because people would just walk around the track on purpose. Or fall off there bike so they can stand in the middle of the track. Even worse if the body could cause a crash. Since rider wouldn't die they just do it because they are mad they fell. Or think it's funny.
Quote from: Klax75 on September 19, 2014, 12:08:25 AM
My idea would be the host of the event can set the number of bike respawns. So it could be unlimited, 10, 5, 3, 1, or what ever number you want. On a per session bases. We have the same thing right now with tires. You can set limited tires.
Not saying ever server should use it, more for special events. :)
I'm not for walking to your bike, although I'd like it. Because people would just walk around the track on purpose. Or fall off there bike so they can stand in the middle of the track. Even worse if the body could cause a crash. Since rider wouldn't die they just do it because they are mad they fell. Or think it's funny.
Personally, I would not consider it as hardcore that if you fell off your bike that causes your race to be over, but I qualify that by saying that could only be implemented when GPB has advanced to the level were the handling of the bikes was consistent and stable so riders didn't ever get those regular(at this stage of GPB Dev)WTF lowside events. Then, as in real life, it would be up to the rider to practice to become consistant enough to be able to finish a race distance without regular offs; this to me would not be hardcore, it would just be a case of knowing that if I keep falling off I need to practice more to become consistant in my riding technique. To me this would be part of a real simulation, were as at the moment this re-spawn system we have now is both very arcade and quite frustrating, especially when you have a full field of riders and you fall off in a WTF event only to have to wait for the whole field of riders to pass before being allowed to get back on your bike, and in certain circumstances, as PeterV unfortunately found out in a recent race, when a full field is spread out, you can be stuck there for a very long time before being allowed to re-spawn.
Hawk.
I'd like to see when you do fall, that you could rotate the camera even if it's from the bikes view so I could look at the track and see what's coming. Right now I keep having to hit the reset button over and over in hopes that my time has come to re-enter the track. Since I can't look to see if riders are coming or not.
Quote from: Klax75 on September 19, 2014, 10:45:54 AM
I'd like to see when you do fall, that you could rotate the camera even if it's from the bikes view so I could look at the track and see what's coming. Right now I keep having to hit the reset button over and over in hopes that my time has come to re-enter the track. Since I can't look to see if riders are coming or not.
Good point! ;)
Though I would prefer the camera to go to orbit so you can see the whole crash scene as soon as the bike falls, and have rag-doll effect on the rider so you could see rider tumbling and bouncing across the circuit until he comes to rest.... Would be quite funny at times. LOL. ;D 8)
Hawk.
If there is a falling limiter(respawn) i will not participate to that kind of race.
Think about the fact that 5 or 6 times during a race someone makes you fall, your race is over and it's not your own fault.
The respawn as ghost during some seconds or until the second gear is, in my though, the best solution.
But an option to enable your solution or not can be good.