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Gpbikes videos ;)

Started by BOBR6 84, May 09, 2014, 11:30:25 pm

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BOBR6 84

Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 10, 2015, 07:55:59 am
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on October 09, 2015, 11:17:22 pm
some practice laps..

https://www.youtube.com/v/4e-IDZEoNl0


Good video Bob very helpful and a good attempt at nearly reclaiming your thread  ;)

So I have questions about it:
1. How come you do more than one lap without random wobbles, backflips and crashes? I know I've said this about your style before but you seem much smoother than is possible, for mortals, in this game. You have super sticky tyres or super smooth skills? ???

2. How come you are able to accelerate so hard before/at the apex without the bike starting to understeer / opening out the corner. A classic example is at the corner at 4.05. I wouldn't dream of putting the power down that hard that early when already so close to the outside edge of the kerb. Usually I am at full buttock-clench with eyes shut at this point. It seems so not-doable it looks odd! Although this corner highlights it the best, you are doing it on most corners and was the thing that struck me the most almost immediately when watching your vid. Its almost like you are using the power to tighten the corner.  This could be the fundamental reason (maybe for a lot of us?) why the average lap pace is so off the fast boys and girls times.

3. Um...How come you are going to tell me its with a default setup too? lol.

Anyway good vid Bob gives me something to try to develop my er...skills.  :-[   ;)


QuoteGood video Bob very helpful and a good attempt at nearly reclaiming your thread  ;)


cheers, i dont mind ;)

QuoteUsually I am at full buttock-clench with eyes shut at this point


same  :D

yeah im not sure nick.. lol i just ''try'' not to correct too much, commit to your braking markers etc. i use front brake mainly but i do touch the rear brake hear and there to tighten a line if needed.. all about timing, getting the bike turned in as you come off the brakes..square it off and fire it out. spend too much time leant over the bike will drift wide..

Traction control is set to 6 in that video.. lets the ducati hang it out a bit and turn on the throttle. great bike!

Napalm Nick

Thanks Bob, yes I hate too much TC too I need it a little loose.

Tried some power before the apex but definitely no tightening happening for me. So I will try squaring off the smooth edges - not really my ancient style but 'adapt and overcome Gunny Highway' and all that.

Thanks for the response.  :)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 05:42:51 pm
QuoteI see what you mean, I just don't think it's actually usable. How would you get the samples at different engine loads ?
We've already trouble getting only 2 sets of samples (throttle fully OFF, throttle fully ON), you're asking for more sets.


As it was "planned"... Setting up a place where we could test bikes (dyno ?) and where we could record sounds at will... In any cases, we are still in the same situation, where we need some sounds. But before thinking about making sounds for this 3rd layer, it should be implemented in the build already.  ;)

But even assuming you can get 3 (or more sets of samples), you'd still need to smoothly transition from one to the next .
So basically you' d be applying the very same strategy in use right now, but with more sets to play with. I do doubt the difference is that big for our purpose.

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 05:42:51 pm
QuoteEverything I've seen around seems to use the same approach as Piboso.


This engine sounds simulation technique is pretty old actually, it's been used in games/projects older than GPB. And in most cases, it was enough, even if not perfect in term of realism.

It's petty old because there's nothing newer and significantly better.
The only progress since are on the synthesis side (i.e. a sound engin ecapable of creating engine sound without samples).

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 05:42:51 pm
As for this pdf, looks complicated. I can't imagine all the work to do just for one sample.. :\

What s proposed in the pdf is pretty simple in fact and not far from what done in GPB.
Except the "main harmonics" stuff, the only major difference I see is the dependency of the overall sound intensity on the throttle and torque.

MaX.

Eagle

QuoteSo basically you' d be applying the very same strategy in use right now, but with more sets to play with. I do doubt the difference is that big for our purpose.


Pretty much, but this 3rd layer has it's own behavior as well, which would push the realism faithfulness a bit further. Also, with it's help, pretty much all the sound behaviors of any engine are simulated (globally).

After, if there is another technique more efficient than this one, then why not ?.. I'm not against any other ideas. Just proposing one.

QuoteIt's petty old because there's nothing newer and significantly better.
The only progress since are on the synthesis side (i.e. a sound engin ecapable of creating engine sound without samples).


And there's none we can get to make our samples or use for gpb. xD

HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 10, 2015, 10:00:41 pm
And there's none we can get to make our samples or use for gpb. xD

One simple thing: get nice samples form a dyno run, for both OFF and on throttle. With decent equipment and a knowledgeable person.
I'm sure this would give nice results without any change to the current GPB sound system.

After that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...

MaX.

Eagle

QuoteAfter that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...


The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 11, 2015, 02:26:38 am
The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

MaX.

Hawk

Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 11, 2015, 02:26:38 am
QuoteAfter that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...


The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.


+1 I totally agree with you SAS.  ;)


Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2015, 06:09:27 am
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 11, 2015, 02:26:38 am
The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

MaX.


Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something.  :)

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 11, 2015, 08:52:42 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2015, 06:09:27 am
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 11, 2015, 02:26:38 am
The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.


Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something.  :)

I'd very much like to see you (or others here) trying to get a grasp of a 3d finite element thermo-elastic dynamic model of a tyre, just out of motivation ...

And even if we assume a very motivated (and competent) modder can get a grasp of it, getting the data for that is really really out of reach.

MaX.

Hawk

October 11, 2015, 09:58:04 am #564 Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 10:15:38 am by Hawk UK
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2015, 09:14:07 am
Quote from: Hawk UK on October 11, 2015, 08:52:42 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2015, 06:09:27 am
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on October 11, 2015, 02:26:38 am
The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ? :P

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.


Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something.  :)

I'd very much like to see you (or others here) trying to get a grasp of a 3d finite element thermo-elastic dynamic model of a tyre, just out of motivation ...

And even if we assume a very motivated (and competent) modder can get a grasp of it, getting the data for that is really really out of reach.

MaX.


Oh I'm sure you could get a grasp of that Max; I'd be surprised if you didn't already know at least the basics of it.... You strike me as the sort of person that enjoys learning exactly how things work and why, and the maths and details behind these kind of things.  ;D

If it's required, meaning that if a project requires very detailed technical skills etc, etc.... then it's up to the modder to get a team together to be able to handle those requirements... "Were there's a will there's a way".  Good modders usually find a way of doing what they need to do even, if on really difficult projects, it may take them some time to complete. :)

Hawk.
Edit: I think the most important thing for modders is for the developer to give them the tools to do the job required.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 11, 2015, 09:58:04 am
Oh I'm sure you could get a grasp of that Max; I'd be surprised if you didn't already know at least the basics of it.... You strike me as the sort of person that enjoys learning exactly how things work and why, and the maths and details behind these kind of things.  ;D

The basics maybe, the details definitely not. And that's me: if in the entire community only 1-2 are up to the job, it's not good.

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 11, 2015, 09:58:04 am
If it's required, meaning that if a project requires very detailed technical skills etc, etc.... then it's up to the modder to get a team together to be able to handle those requirements... "Were there's a will there's a way".  Good modders usually find a way of doing what they need to do even, if on really difficult projects, it may take them some time to complete. :)

It's not a matter of will. For some people it will be totally out of reach, no matter the will. For the vast majority it will be doable, but only after taking 3-4 graduate-level courses. So, in parctice, it's a no go.

Quote from: Hawk UK on October 11, 2015, 09:58:04 am
Edit: I think the most important thing for modders is for the developer to give them the tools to do the job required.

At that level of complexity, tools will not help. Academic world is full of open source tools for plenty of complex jobs. They are often open source even. But if one doesn't can't ahve the bases to use them ...

MaX,

Eagle

>Max

Well, what i will say will sounds dumb.. But this third layer could be optional ? Like, inserting a boolean token at the beginning of the scl (parsed like the rest) "3rdLayer true", and depending on this line, GPB would switch between one or the other system..

I don't think Piboso would make that though...

But in any cases, as i said, the difficulty is to find sounds, not especially implementing them or change two things in the sound simulation.

Yohji


BOBR6 84


BOBR6 84