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Controller beginnings

Started by teeds, October 23, 2014, 10:53:08 AM

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doubledragoncc

Great work Teeds. Bet you cant believe how it feels with the steering from that pivot point. It is so ggod to see someone do it the right way and enjoy it.

Keep up the great work.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
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teeds

November 15, 2014, 08:30:56 PM #16 Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 08:49:33 AM by teeds
Yea it works a treat DD, got some thumb buttons now to try MXbikes and wow! It makes a massive difference controlling the bike..



doubledragoncc

Hi teeds. Good to see your having fum m8.

I notice in the video that your steering is off, between the handlebar controls and the bike on screen it looks like there is a lag from the input to the bike on screen. What is your steering input devise? ie is it a potentiometer, if so is it with gearing? What are you using to connect you system to the computer? In GPBikes Alpha 7 there was a lag in control input if you were not using direct steer. Try playing with settings for the controller. Let me know the basics and I think I can help you get a faster and more precise setup. Keep up the great work m8.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

BOBR6 84

yeah apart from the slight lag.. that looks really great for mxbikes!! make me one lol  ;D 8)

HornetMaX

November 16, 2014, 05:06:39 PM #19 Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 01:03:40 PM by HornetMaX
The output of the controller (which is an input for GPB) dictates the lean angle, so it's not at all equal to the steering angle.
If you want the controller's bar to be (almost) the same as the virtual bar, you need to use direct steer angle.

MaX.

teeds

November 17, 2014, 01:01:42 PM #20 Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 01:16:35 PM by teeds
The lag you see is the game physics as Max said, it feels absolutely fine while playing. I think the lag looks worse because you can see exactly were i'm steering while playing unlike with say an Xbox 360 controller. I have direct lean on but have not tried DS yet, but with only steer and no lean I don't think i'll like it. The controller is working perfectly when tested in the mxb menu or windows and btw i'm using hall effect sensors all round, no gearing used although you could if needed, they're very easy to calibrate and hopefully will not wear out eva  :) I did'nt try to get the sensitivity the same on each axis as there doesn't seem to be the need, 200+ points seems fine and the steering has the most at about 1000.

teeds

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on November 16, 2014, 04:22:56 PM
make me one lol  ;D 8)

Coming to all good retailers near you soon, right DD?  ;)

doubledragoncc

How is it in GPBikes?

Believe me the difference with gearing for the steering makes it so much quicker and more precise.

Glad your enjoying it bro

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

BOBR6 84

Somebody mentioned on another forum about xbox controllers..

If there was lets say a racing version that had stiff triggers.. Progressive feel so to squeeze fully in means probably a lock up on the brakes.. (i know we have that modulation in gpbikes already) but the triggers are to easy (light) for me personally.. Maybe some vibration in and around the triggers to to give feel of chatter or bottomed out suspension on the brakes etc.

How easy or hard would this be to modify myself? Any ideas of parts, springs or anything?

For me personally that would be perfect!

BOBR6 84

Be amazing if one day, brake fade could be simulated, through a stiff trigger on a game pad or a brake lever on a design like the ones in this thread..

HornetMaX

@BOBR6:
Stiff triggers is easy, just a matter of finding the right spring:
https://www.youtube.com/v/OL_9_p-QCZM

Progressive feel: theoretically one could have a non-linear spring, but it may be hard to find one and, anyway, the effect on such a litle displacement may be limited. I don't think you could feel the difference. Likely you only want a stiffer spring.

Brake fade: there are two things in brake fade, a reduction of braking power (for the same force applied to the lever) and a "spongy feeling".
The reduction in brake power can be simulated in GPB: for that, as discussed, Piboso should develop the simulation of the thermal dynamics of the brakes.
But the "spongy feeling" is impossible to reproduce, on a joypad and on any other controller one may invent.

MaX.

BOBR6 84

putting stiffer springs in never crossed my mind lol!! Thats great, i will do just that!

so nothing could be made electronicly so that you feel the bite of the brakes or something along those lines?


HornetMaX

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on November 19, 2014, 08:23:29 AM
putting stiffer springs in never crossed my mind lol!! Thats great, i will do just that!

so nothing could be made electronicly so that you feel the bite of the brakes or something along those lines?
One could potentially use a load cell. That's what some people use as brake pedal of steering wheels (e.g. g27): they replace the default spring+potentiometer with a load cell.
The difference is:

  • with the original spring + potentiometer, it's the distance you push the pedal that tells the game how much you want to brake. That's also what you have on pad's triggers.
  • with the load cell, when you push on the pedal, after a short "free" movement it hits the bottom and from this point on it won't move any more: it's the force you put on the pedal that tells the game how much you want to brake (like on a real hydraulic brake).

I don't know if one could fit a load cell into a pad and they also need some control electronics (Leo Bodnar has this kind of stuff in stock).

MaX.

Hawk

In my foot pedal controller(on the brake pedal) It has two powerful magnets, one fitted behind the foot pedal and one built into and behind the pedal but in the chassis. It gives a very good progressive brake pedal feel as the further you depress the brake the more resistance there is in the pedal lever as the magnets repel each other progressively more powerfully the closer they get to each other.  :)

Hawk

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk_UK on November 19, 2014, 11:48:39 AM
In my foot pedal controller(on the brake pedal) It has two powerful magnets, one fitted behind the foot pedal and one built into and behind the pedal but in the chassis. It gives a very good progressive brake pedal feel as the further you depress the brake the more resistance there is in the pedal lever as the magnets repel each other progressively more powerfully the closer they get to each other.  :)
But this is not how a racing hydraulic brake works. Ideally, once the brake pad(s) make contact with the disc(s), there should be no more pedal (or lever) movement at all: fluid is incompressible, hydraulic circuit does not deform under pressure (including the brake lines). You could put more force on the pedal and the pedal should not move (but the extra force you put on it should be translated to a larger input to the simulator).

Part of the "brake fading" one feels is because the brake fluid heats up too much and become compressible (more compressible than usual): in that case, you end up applying more force on the pedal (or lever), the pedal move more than usual, but the extra force is used to compress the fluid instead of generating pressure between pad(s) and disc(s). That's the spongy feeling: the pedal/lever moves, but the resulting braking force is the same. You can't have this on a controller: neither with a spring + potentiometer (or magnetic spring + optical encoder or whatever), nor with a load cell.

The load cell is however closer to reality as the pedal will not move when you apply more force, which is a good "simulation" of the non-fading situations.

So, bottom line: what's easily doable is a brake that "brakes less" when it's too hot (Piboso could do that). Beyond that, you could improve the feeling using a load cell (on a handlebar-style controller, on a pad it may not make a lot of sense). Sponginess: you need a real hydraulic system for that (or something utterly complicated to emulate it) :)

MaX.