Marquez breaks little finger

[Hawk]

That is just one of the big points I'm making..... The fact that Dani says that Marc is riding on the limit all the time...... That would not be possible if there were no computer controlled aids.
Kenny Roberts stated that he usually rode at 95% most of the time and only rode to the limit when he felt he definitely had to take the risk of doing it, but then only rode at 100% for a maximum of 1 or 2 laps at most because sooner or later the bikes would kick you down the road, so it was a big risk in the Classic GP era, and certainly not a tactic that would win you a world title.
This is just another part of riding skills that you need to know just how far and for how long you could ride a classic bike on or near it's limits, a skill that yes is also needed on MotoGP, but not to the same level by any means it seems.

Also it has been stated by MotoGP riders that the current computer controls do allow lesser talented riders to race at a greater level than they would otherwise have the talent to do so; okay yes, this does lead to closer racing throughout the field, but at what expense? As I said above: MotoGP has lost it's soul. 

Hawk.
PS: Max. I had a feeling you'd say that, as I also know you are of a technical mind and therefore it follows that you would admire any engine that you feel is the best for the job in hand. But the best for the job isn't always the best for the environment or bike sales, politics or whatever, but is the best for motorcycle GP's. I guess you know what kind of engine I'm talking about. Lol 

Hawk.

[Hawk]

I quite like the electric bikes! Downside is the weight and lack of noise haha. Id have to tape a ghetto blaster on the thing and ask Warlock to make me some sounds 

They have potential to be very fast and im sure they will be hopefully sometime before we run out of fuel 

I agree.... Electric bikes would potentially be very quick, but to replace a real engine with an electric engine, especially in GP's? I would be whole heartedly against that for sure. Just look how lame the electric car GP's sound and look..... No atmosphere at all... it is very boring to watch. Just goes to show how much sound goes towards the spectacle of motor sports. Hence I Warlock and others have been saying about the sound in GPB needs eventually to be looked into to give the best immersion possible. 

Hawk.

[JJS209]

would be interesting to put a motogp racer on a roadracing track from IRRC, Southern 100, NW200, armory, scarborough or ulster gp.
there you can see how comfortable rider are with their machines or not.

yea its dangerous and that why you NEVER can go over the edge of your skills like marc does, he would be simply dead if would ride all the time on "his" 105%.
a track is closed and in comparison to rr its not dangerous at all to race there above your personal limits.
btw. roadracing happens at present time with modern bikes.

[Napalm Nick]

That is just one of the big points I'm making..... The fact that Dani says that Marc is riding on the limit all the time...... That would not be possible if there were no computer controlled aids.

Totally understand where you are coming from Hawkster but this begs my next question:
So why doesn't everyone do it? Don't they have the skill required? Getting away with it can't be down to all luck?   
But generally I agree - no electronic aids is best. Maybe get rid of some of those pesky mechanical aids too - like brakes! hahahaha yes I'm being pedantic sorry.

, he would be simply dead if would ride all the time on "his" 105%.

yeh Road Racing is more a test of Man, Machine and Ball circumference  . I would like to think Marc would reign it in if he tried it like any sane person would.

[Hawk]

That is just one of the big points I'm making..... The fact that Dani says that Marc is riding on the limit all the time...... That would not be possible if there were no computer controlled aids.

Totally understand where you are coming from Hawkster but this begs my next question:
So why doesn't everyone do it? Don't they have the skill required? Getting away with it can't be down to all luck?   
But generally I agree - no electronic aids is best. Maybe get rid of some of those pesky mechanical aids too - like brakes! hahahaha yes I'm being pedantic sorry.

, he would be simply dead if would ride all the time on "his" 105%.

yeh Road Racing is more a test of Man, Machine and Ball circumference  . I would like to think Marc would reign it in if he tried it like any sane person would.

Well.... I would say that now Rossi is on a competitive bike and putting Marc under pressure we see the results of Marc's ability and attitude on track(I mean what a plonker he was in the last race... He just threw it all away), and I hate to say it, but if Marc doesn't start using his head we could well see Marc getting seriously hurt this year. Either that or he'll seriously hurt someone else in the process.

As far as why doesn't everyone do it? Well no matter whether your on a bike with computer aids or not, you still need a competitive bike to compete at the front, a few have those bikes, most don't. But I would say all current MotoGP riders are riding on or very close to their bikes and their own limits most of the time due to computer aids giving them the confidence, consistency and stability to be able to do that.

Hawk.
PS: I absolutely agree with JJ about Marc on real road race circuits..... I get the feeling Marc doesn't know how to ride less than 100% all the time,  so I'd advise him to stay away from real road racing for his own safety sake.

[Napalm Nick]

PS: I absolutely agree with JJ about Marc on real road race circuits..... I get the feeling Marc doesn't know how to ride less than 100% all the time,  so I'd advise him to stay away from real road racing for his own safety sake.

I've just read an interview with him in the Guardian newspaper where he actually says he only thinks of first place and must try to learn how to settle for tactical points when needed. It proves your feeling is correct and I respect him more for realizing it. Hopefully he would give the same answer as Valli if asked about road racing "no its too dangerous".

I'm still not convinced how having electronic assists makes any difference - its still a test of man and machine to maximum capability and will always be even when the magdrive hover bikes with warp drive come along. However your point of  it possibly levelling the field is an interesting one making me think deeply........if I was the best rider without assists then the bikes changed to having assists and suddenly we are all similar speed then yes assists are bad. Is that happening?.....I honestly don't know. Pass me another red wine...

Its a shame its not like GPBikes should be - assists make riding easier, but ultimately slower encouraging people to master the skills.

Its a good discussion we are having, shame there is no BBQ here

Edit. Hang on a minute I might be seeing your light - if the 'limit' is considered to be at 100% with assists but anyone can ride at 90% before it gets tricky then the field will be tight. Remove the assists and anyone can ride at 50% and the rest is proportional to your skill then the field may be more loose. And maybe no-one needs to be at 100% all the time and certainly not 105%.
I think we are on the same page Hawky.

[HornetMaX]

But all the 100% vs 50% stuff is purely on the paper: riders are out at 100% (when it matters, of course). Then 100% on a modern bike may mean something else from 100% on a bike from 30 yrs ago, sure.

Anyway, I didn't dislike the 500cc era (big Doohan supporter here): I loved it. I just happen to love current motoGP too, maybe because I don't buy the "you need less skill" argument or maybe because the races can be just as spectacular as before.

As far as why doesn't everyone do it? Well no matter whether your on a bike with computer aids or not, you still need a competitive bike to compete at the front, a few have those bikes, most don't.

This was very true even in the 500cc era (just finished reading an article describing how honda "hampered" Cadalora and his non-factory honda in order to favour Mick and his HRC).
Only way out is what Nap was saying (cup races, same material for everybody). But cup races do not interest constructors, especially as top-level class.

Road racing is madness (personal opinion, of course). I'm sure I'd love to spectate a TT, but that wouldn't change what I think about RR.
No wonder no track rider wants to try it. You may think "they don't have the balls". Notice however that I haven't seen a lot of RR riders aligned on a motoGP grid neither ... and the salary is surely better in motoGP ...

MaX.

[Hawk]

That's interesting about Marc's interview with the Guardian Newspaper.... I hope he is seeing the light at last because he's too good a rider to make silly mistakes and throw away championships. Let's hope. 
Nick, I'm glad you can understand what I'm trying to say here. It would be easy for others reading what I post here to think that I don't like the modern MotoGP.... Nothing could be further from the truth. I also love the current MotoGP era too Max... and certainly the last two races have proved just how spectacular modern races can be. But, and it's a big BUT. Lol. I still feel that in the classic era of the 2 stroke GP's the bikes required more sensitive and direct skills to ride those bikes to their limits than todays 4 stroke bikes do with their computer aids....

I'll give you an analogy to compare: If a pro golf player had a putter with a computerised laser aiming device drawing the putting line on a green to get the ball into the hole, there would still be some skill involved in making the weight of a putting stroke correctly to get the ball to follow that line into the hole, would anyone consider this a cheat? Would anyone consider this a device that reduced the amount of skill the golf player required to putt the ball into the hole? I'd say absolutely they would consider it a cheat and ban it immediately!
Too right Dani fell off when his TC system failed, simply because he'd learned how to ride with computer assistance and didn't expect to ride without it, which just shows how much a difference it does make. 

Golf is similar to motorcycle racing in that for the golfer it's about man and golf club working as one to achieve an objective; with a GP rider it's about man and machine working together as one to achieve an objective. So any aids that rely on a computer are taking away a great deal of skill required to achieve those objectives. That to me is cheating pure and simple. For sure it's not any fault of the riders that they have to ride with mickey mouse bikes, it's FIM and the factories fault for ever letting MotoGP get to this sad state of affairs.....

I say let's step back and get back to a situation were the rider has total control of their bikes without any computer aids whatsoever. Real racing, purely with man and machine like it should be. Let's get back to seeing who the real hero's are!

Hawk.

[Napalm Nick]

    Yes we must not forget Marc is still very young and under a lot of pressure. I really admire him, I like his attitude, his considered yet natural responses to questions, the fact he doesn't need a lollipop and his infectious enthusiasm. I like his ethos and I really love that a race/scrap on track is the most fun for him. To me he is a bit like Valli, appearing to enjoy his work more than most.
Yes this year could be the best [modern] MotoGP year yet and even better once Crutchlow and Bradley decide they have let the others have enough of a points head-start.

Right, Im off for a game of golf with Mickey, now where did I put that laser...........

[HornetMaX]

I say let's step back and get back to a situation were the rider has total control of their bikes without any computer aids whatsoever. Real racing, purely with man and machine like it should be. Let's get back to seeing who the real hero's are!

Sure, if you want yamaha, honda, suzuki, ducati and aprilia leave motogp, that sounds like a good plan 

Maybe some brit constructor could jump in then 

MaX.

[doubledragoncc]

OMFG................. thousands die in an earthquake and nobody gives a shit, but M brakes his lil ol pinky and your all up in arms about it?

Shit its a finger not the end of the world and the only thing that matters is the guy is doing the best he can!

My families moto is "To Try Is Enough" its for a reason, because thats all that counts, he who dares wins, no matter if he loses. give the man a break and if you cant......................YOU get out there and try to keep up with him on ANY bike, he will kick your ass!

Why do you argue over such menial poo? It wont make GPB better and even if this is the off topic thread, its all about us loving bikes and riding, so why not spend as much time as you do in this thread putting energy into helping GPB be better?

F&^% lil fingers there only good for pickin ya nose anyways! (I do know it matters for clutch control, been there done it)

Just saying

DD

[WALKEN]

Tire vs tarmac limit.

There is a limit to speed around any given track with any given machine.  The 2 vs 4 stroke debate in a real world application is moot. Regardless of what your riding there is a limit and that limit is almost like swinging a bucket of water around in a circle where the force is keeping it pinned to the outside edge or bottom of the bucket. The same theory applies with motorcycle physics (speed vs dimension).

If you purposely build a bike to go faster than what the dimension of the track allows you would never find the limit of the track but only the limit of how far you can push the limitless machine crating a limit within a limit.

The variables are vast in each corner and scientifically you could basically crate the perfect limit between the two hence a slot racer.

The interesting part of racing is the human element, man vs machine. Perfection in this regard is poetry when everything flows together. The further we introduce mechanics over human ability the more we flirt with the romantic notion.         

[Napalm Nick]

Will somebody pleeeeease think about Orville. That poor, poor lil guy 

[Hawk]

The interesting part of racing is the human element, man vs machine. Perfection in this regard is poetry when everything flows together. The further we introduce mechanics over human ability the more we flirt with the romantic notion.       

Perfectly said WALKEN! 

OMFG................. thousands die in an earthquake and nobody gives a shit, but M brakes his lil ol pinky and your all up in arms about it?

Shit its a finger not the end of the world and the only thing that matters is the guy is doing the best he can!

My families moto is "To Try Is Enough" its for a reason, because thats all that counts, he who dares wins, no matter if he loses. give the man a break and if you cant......................YOU get out there and try to keep up with him on ANY bike, he will kick your ass!

Why do you argue over such menial poo? It wont make GPB better and even if this is the off topic thread, its all about us loving bikes and riding, so why not spend as much time as you do in this thread putting energy into helping GPB be better?

F&^% lil fingers there only good for pickin ya nose anyways! (I do know it matters for clutch control, been there done it)

Just saying

DD

Don't you think we're doing enough to help improve the GPB experience already? LOL 

Nice to see you back giving us some grief DD. Lol 

I say let's step back and get back to a situation were the rider has total control of their bikes without any computer aids whatsoever. Real racing, purely with man and machine like it should be. Let's get back to seeing who the real hero's are!

Sure, if you want yamaha, honda, suzuki, ducati and aprilia leave motogp, that sounds like a good plan 

Maybe some brit constructor could jump in then 

MaX.

Oh, I doubt very much that would happen.... but if they did,  I'm sure the Brit's could do a much better job than the Japs... We've always been the mother of invention throughout history given the need.  For some reason we just seemed to roll-over and let them take over the market at the time.

We could bring Norton back to GP's as a starter.... That was a great bike with the Rotary Engine! I seem to remember there was some controversy about defining it's capacity and therefore it's class at the time the bike first hit the tracks many years ago? Arhhh, good memories! 

Hawk.

[Warlock]

I quite like the electric bikes! Downside is the weight and lack of noise haha. Id have to tape a ghetto blaster on the thing and ask Warlock to make me some sounds 

jsjssjjjsjs 
the day i hear this on GP, im off to Sailing or fishing

https://www.youtube.com/v/QnBvi8uXsq4

I like technology , but a bike that sounds something like a garage door     is a bit too far for me.