Rider just seems to let go of bike sometimes

[h106frp]

Seem to notice this a lot with low speed turns; the rider will just fall off the bike, nothing dramatic has occurred and the bike will often just roll on in the upright position.

It just like the rider has given up, let go of the bars and tipped of the bike - any idea what is happening?

[RIDER]

If you post a video or screenshot it should be easy to tell. Is this happening mid corner, entry or exit? Your just coasting right, no brake/gas?

[h106frp]

Yep, just coasting and often mid-corner.

I just cannot see why the rider gives up and falls off, the bike has not fallen over or thrown him and if the speed is very low surely he should just put his feet down.

I usually ride with first person view, maybe i should have a look at some replays in third person view and see if it helps.

[Hawk]

What Bike/s and track/s is this happening at for you? If you could say which corner too it would help pinpoint the problem if it is a track surface issue.

If it's a track that I have the 3D source files for I could take a look and see if there is any issue with the track mesh at those points.

Hawk.

[h106frp]

Mallory hairpin if you get near the edge of the track and the default track last sharp downhill low speed corner seem to do it a lot.

Not sure it is a track issue as i believe Mallory is considered to be a very good track. More likely my own misunderstanding of how the virtual rider/physics interact- i suspect it might be to do with auto rider lean, i think he just leans (too much for the low speed) until he falls off the bike

[Hawk]

Mallory hairpin if you get near the edge of the track and the default track last sharp downhill low speed corner seem to do it a lot.

Not sure it is a track issue as i believe Mallory is considered to be a very good track. More likely my own misunderstanding of how the virtual rider/physics interact- i suspect it might be to do with auto rider lean, i think he just leans (too much for the low speed) until he falls off the bike

From what you say in your first post, I have the impression that it the rider that jumps off the bike and leaves the bike rolling forward? Or are you talking about the well known front end folding away(washing away as some say) leaving the rider on his arse and the bike on the ground?

Most bike physics in my opinion have not been tested properly for such corners on good track surfaces such as the Mallory Park 1978 hairpin(rising uphill corner) or Silverstone GP corner 13(rising uphill) and therefore their front end is left unstable for these types of corner. Proof to me of this is that other bikes I've ridden around those corners take them with no instabilities whatsoever, most bikes don't. So my conclusion is that it is a bike physics problem and bike physics modders should test their physics on these type of corners to make sure they are set-up properly.

There is also a virtual rider issue that Piboso has said still needs tweaking to get right, so this also adds to this problem. Hope Beta 7 has a resolution. 

Mallory Park 1978 is considered a good track surface, but again, in my opinion, and I've read this about simulators, sticking religiously to real life data is good to a certain point, but it still needs a person with experience of whatever it is your simulating to come in and enable you to tweak settings to get an actual real representation of the real object your simulating. I get the feeling that bike physics modders are currently wanting to religiously stick to the real data and then blame the simulation physics for a poor performance.
Simulators cannot take into account all possible variables that exist in the real world, otherwise we'd have all simulators calculating fluid dynamics in real-time for instance. So yeah, as I say, in my opinion, putting real data into simulators gets you to an approximate representation of the real thing but that data still needs adjustments to tweak for a realistic performance inside the simulator by testing with someone with experienced knowledge of how the object should be reacting in all kinds of situations.

I'm sure others will disagree with this, but that's okay too. 

Hawk.

[Napalm Nick]

Hmm would a test track be useful I wonder ?  One incorporating all types of camber, elevation changes, and corner types for testing physics purposes? A kind of test track 'standard' for modders to pass their bikes at.

Probably not till after B7. We will see. Like 'peeking' at presents early I sure would like a 'peek' at the B7 changelog.

[h106frp]

Yes, its the rider leaping from a perfectly upright bike thats confusing me (almost like he fell asleep due to my dull riding), not the (randomly) folding front end.

Its mainly when i run into the turn too hot, have lost a lot of speed, made the turn, and then he just falls of the bike and the bike rolls on upright, very confusing.
It always happens at very low speed, and now you suggest it when an incline is involved so i suspect the virtual rider model is misbehaving. Maybe wait for b7 and see if it persists.

Mallory is one of the few tracks i have ridden in real life (modern circuit) with the race school that used to operate there  . Never fell of on the hairpin though, but i have done it numerous times in GPB.  Most of the GPB track seems pretty good but 'devils elbow' seems a bit tame compared to real life, found that a challenge to get on the gas for the straight without the back stepping out on the camber; in game its easy 

I agree, a standard test environment would be great for bike modders. A proven track with a series of challenging features much like real world testing.

Probably would not even need to be a track just some sort of rolling road where you could throw forces at the model and ensure it behave properly.

[C21]

Hmm would a test track be useful I wonder ?  One incorporating all types of camber, elevation changes, and corner types for testing physics purposes? A kind of test track 'standard' for modders to pass their bikes at.

+100000 
A test track is really missing.
I use Victoria for bike development because it´s the track Piboso programmed the bikes on but i think also on Victoria not all corners are error free....especially lukey heights...

[BOBR6 84]

Never had the rider fall off on those corners... But, Mugello!!! I touched a curb aaarrggghh jump for your life!! 

[C21]

But, Mugello!!! I touched a curb aaarrggghh jump for your life!!

oh dear...yes.....it´s really ambarrassing....especially the chicane before the start/finish line.....arrgghhhhhh.
So the main problem is we did not really know if it´s a problem of the bike physic or a problem of the track model(ler) or maybe a combination of both 

[h106frp]

Does anybody know of a mod bike that is considered a 'very sorted' reference with its default settings?

[BOBR6 84]

Its strange... It seems if you are agressive you can ''sometimes'' get away with riding over the curbs at mugello.. Although they feel very slippery. Touch the curb slightly and the rider jumps off and dissapears lol.

Maybe in some tracks, the surface has grip/no grip.. Grip/no grip in small areas? (no nothing about track building)

[BOBR6 84]

Does anybody know of a mod bike that is considered a 'very sorted' reference with its default settings?

Try the R6, Aprilia rsa250..

I think the SBK bikes have the most planted/smooth front end around corners but you do need to work on the setup a little bit to calm them down in general..

[Napalm Nick]

I would not say the RSA unfortunately, lovely as it is generally.  This suffers the same as all the smaller bikes. Bigger is more stable for me.
Is this another hint at the problem?